Who Are We Becoming in the Second Half of Life? The Second Half of Life Studio, Ep. 1

[00:05] : Yeah, that's fine. As long as you can
[00:07] : see it.
[00:09] : Oh, people are joining us.
[00:11] : >> Great.
[00:12] : Should I get my computer
[00:13] : with the chat?
[00:15] : >> No.
[00:16] : >> Okay.
[00:20] : >> Oh, Julia has she and her husband are
[00:22] : both there.
[00:24] : >> [music]
[00:33] : >> Hello, hello, hello. We're starting
[00:35] : soon. Trying to get all our tech stuff
[00:37] : working. A few glitches over here.
[00:41] : >> [laughter]
[00:42] : >> It's an adventure. New adventures.
[00:46] : >> Hi everybody.
[00:48] : >> Welcome to the second half of Life
[00:50] : Studio. We're a little off our
[00:53] : podcasting
[00:55] : game today.
[00:56] : >> Yeah, well, someone over here does
[00:58] : streaming all the time and someone here
[01:00] : that sets up the tech got it wrong.
[01:03] : >> Yeah. Hi Julie and Julia. So great to
[01:07] : see everybody here. Carolyn, welcome.
[01:10] : Hello, hello, hello. Thanks for joining
[01:12] : us live.
[01:14] : >> Hi Julie.
[01:15] : I saw you this morning.
[01:16] : >> I know, right? Long time no see.
[01:18] : >> Oh my goodness. Welcome to the second
[01:21] : half of Life Studio everybody.
[01:24] : Uh I'm Brad Dobson. If you don't know
[01:26] : me, I'm
[01:27] : her husband. I'm the behind-the-scenes
[01:30] : tech guy.
[01:31] : And
[01:33] : I kind of sold my dad on this show.
[01:35] : >> He totally did. And if we haven't met
[01:37] : yet, I'm Dr. Minette Riordan and
[01:39] : together we are Mindful Patterns and do
[01:43] : a lot of work together behind the scenes
[01:46] : and we have on and off for probably the
[01:48] : last 15 years and this year we
[01:51] : celebrated 30 years of marriage.
[01:54] : I know. Yay us. These microphones are a
[01:58] : pain as well. And
[02:01] : we've been talking about getting another
[02:03] : podcast going for the last 3 years, I
[02:07] : think, and just kind of nothing stuck.
[02:11] : >> Yeah, I wrote down that we we had a
[02:13] : podcast called Structure and Flow. And
[02:16] : uh we actually ran 100 episodes of that.
[02:18] : >> We were very organized. We had guests
[02:20] : and everything. Uh and it ran its
[02:22] : course. And uh
[02:24] : but recently
[02:26] : uh I think, you know, Monette's had a
[02:28] : lot of our members and clients
[02:32] : and actually her brother-in-law and some
[02:34] : other people that we know asking or
[02:36] : brother, I'm sorry.
[02:38] : Uh you know, do you do this for guys?
[02:41] : And uh and so we kind of decided to
[02:43] : expand on that and and have some fun
[02:45] : together doing it. So.
[02:47] : >> Because we do love to work together and
[02:49] : people often ask us, how do you work
[02:51] : together? And at the end of the show,
[02:53] : we're going to share what we're calling
[02:54] : our real life wisdom segment where we're
[02:56] : going to give you some insights into how
[02:59] : do we make this work and uh still enjoy
[03:02] : being with each other all the time.
[03:04] : [laughter]
[03:05] : >> It works most of the time.
[03:06] : >> It does. All right, you want to show
[03:08] : your pretty slides?
[03:09] : >> Sure.
[03:10] : Hey, can you folks in the chat, can you
[03:12] : type can you hear us all? Are we
[03:14] : actually talking or are we talking into
[03:16] : the void?
[03:18] : Anyone?
[03:19] : Uh
[03:20] : I'm not seeing it in the chat, Monette.
[03:23] : I hope this is working.
[03:28] : Nobody's typing in the chat.
[03:30] : I wonder if we just did that fantastic
[03:32] : intro and nobody could hear us. Yes,
[03:34] : they can. Wonderful. [laughter]
[03:37] : All right, sometimes it's hard when
[03:38] : you're talking into into the internet
[03:41] : void. Wonderful. Okay, let's go over to
[03:43] : the slides.
[03:44] : >> thanks everybody.
[03:48] : So, I want to talk a little bit just for
[03:50] : a minute. Um our official sponsor of the
[03:53] : show is us and our membership program,
[03:56] : the Sisterhood of Wisdom and Wonder.
[03:58] : This is the main work that we have the
[04:01] : honor, privilege, and pleasure to do,
[04:05] : and it is specifically designed for
[04:07] : women over 50. And every time Brad sits
[04:11] : in behind the scenes, "Hi Tori." on one
[04:15] : of
[04:16] : the episodes or one of our mythical
[04:19] : makeover experience, he says, "I'm
[04:21] : having all the same questions
[04:23] : >> Yep.
[04:24] : >> that you're posing and that I'm hearing
[04:26] : from all of these ladies." And so, that
[04:29] : kind of was another sort of bump in the
[04:32] : direction of how can we have this
[04:34] : conversation
[04:35] : about the his and her perspective
[04:38] : of what is changing and who we're
[04:40] : becoming in life after 50.
[04:42] : >> Yep.
[04:45] : So, for what we're covering today, we're
[04:46] : just going to have three segments.
[04:49] : Uh probably it's not going to be super
[04:51] : short. Segment one is what we're
[04:53] : reading.
[04:54] : Both of us read a lot, non-fiction and
[04:56] : fiction. We'll be talking about
[04:58] : non-fiction today.
[04:59] : >> [laughter]
[05:00] : >> We could talk about fiction, too,
[05:01] : though.
[05:01] : >> Um yeah, but I'm kind of tired of
[05:04] : Brandon Sanderson at this [laughter]
[05:05] : point.
[05:06] : Um segment two will be a main
[05:07] : conversation about, you know, where
[05:10] : where we find ourselves becoming in the
[05:12] : second half of life.
[05:13] : And then, uh finally,
[05:16] : some real-life wisdom about things
[05:17] : that's that are working for us or have
[05:19] : worked for us in the past.
[05:22] : >> Yeah, I love it.
[05:22] : >> So,
[05:24] : segment one, what we're reading.
[05:27] : Let's go back to video.
[05:30] : You want to start?
[05:31] : >> Sure, I can start. So, we have two books
[05:33] : this month because we haven't read the
[05:35] : book that each other is reading,
[05:36] : although we often do. And I think the
[05:39] : one that you just finished, Second
[05:41] : Mountain, was another tipping point that
[05:44] : pushed us to over the edge
[05:46] : >> to this book. but um the book release is
[05:50] : one that I haven't quite finished
[05:51] : reading yet and it was
[05:53] : recommended by one of the members of our
[05:55] : community, Maggie Shannon. Thank you,
[05:58] : Maggie. And it's called Release and the
[06:01] : conversation around clutter is one that
[06:04] : comes up over and over again in our own
[06:07] : lives. And if you could see the art
[06:09] : table around you with all my stuff on it
[06:13] : and then Brad's very neat desk upstairs.
[06:16] : We have very different approaches.
[06:18] : >> Quite.
[06:19] : >> And we 2 years ago cleaned out my dad's
[06:22] : house after 30 years, a lot of clutter.
[06:26] : And it comes up in conversations in the
[06:28] : sisterhood all the time about how do I
[06:31] : let go of all of these things that I'm
[06:33] : attached to. So, what I loved about the
[06:36] : book Release is that it talks about four
[06:39] : different types of clutter, physical,
[06:40] : mental, emotional, and spiritual. And so
[06:43] : often times we think that getting rid of
[06:45] : clutter it should be easy to put that
[06:48] : cute little scrub with Connor's little
[06:51] : footprints on it, you know, [laughter]
[06:53] : into the recycle.
[06:54] : >> never letting that go.
[06:56] : >> Right? Or to think, you know, I'm not
[06:58] : using this anymore, could someone else
[07:00] : use it? Or we get caught in I have this
[07:03] : big envelope full of cards that I wrote
[07:07] : to my grandmother and she saved, right?
[07:10] : So, they're not cards she wrote to me,
[07:11] : but the other way around and I can't let
[07:14] : go of them.
[07:16] : Right? So, we have drawers and closets
[07:19] : and boxes full of these things that were
[07:22] : inherited, gifted, given. Brad and I
[07:25] : like to buy art a lot of times when we
[07:27] : travel, so we have a house full of
[07:29] : beautiful art that we've been given or
[07:31] : have purchased.
[07:33] : >> Or painted.
[07:33] : >> Or or painted, yes. [laughter] Um
[07:35] : painted. We have paintings, a cute
[07:38] : little scissor tail flycatcher there our
[07:40] : daughter painted. So, you know, the
[07:42] : house feels very full and it's true that
[07:45] : nobody wants our right? Our kids
[07:48] : look around, they don't want this. We're
[07:50] : looking at all of our parents' homes
[07:52] : full of stuff and thinking, "We don't
[07:55] : want all of their stuff." And so, this
[07:57] : conversation of clutter goes really deep
[08:00] : into
[08:02] : more than just letting go of the item,
[08:04] : but often involving having to let go of
[08:07] : our attachment to a memory, to a person,
[08:11] : to um an opportunity or an event, and
[08:14] : it's tricky. So, that's what I've been
[08:16] : reading and talking about.
[08:17] : >> Basis of Buddhism, right?
[08:19] : >> Yes. Yes.
[08:20] : >> As a Buddhist, it's all about attachment
[08:21] : and the suffering that comes with that.
[08:23] : >> Non-attachment, yes.
[08:24] : >> Um yeah, it's interesting and I I never
[08:27] : thought of it in the perspective of
[08:30] : I
[08:31] : Clutter for me is a is a problem. Um it
[08:33] : it
[08:34] : comes as a physical and mental weight,
[08:37] : and decluttering is a big deal. And then
[08:40] : when I look at
[08:41] : look at it from the perspective of
[08:43] : what I'm leaving behind, um
[08:47] : you know, that's just a it's just a
[08:49] : chore for future for [laughter]
[08:51] : for my kids or whoever, so.
[08:53] : >> And I think we've been in that place a
[08:55] : lot lately of looking at how can we ease
[08:58] : things for our kids when we go? And
[09:02] : we're young. It's not like we're
[09:03] : thinking about, "Oh, we're going to be
[09:05] : gone tomorrow." And life happens, right?
[09:08] : >> Sure.
[09:08] : >> So, but there's this sense of watching
[09:10] : our own parents decline and aging that
[09:14] : has made us really conscious about how
[09:18] : can we do this in a conscious way and
[09:21] : not as a last thought. So, it's been
[09:24] : these books are all sparking these these
[09:26] : conversations
[09:27] : >> Yeah.
[09:27] : >> and have everything to do with our main
[09:29] : conversation today around who am I
[09:31] : becoming?
[09:32] : >> Who was the author? Do you remember?
[09:34] : >> Um I don't and I didn't write it down,
[09:36] : but we'll we'll put
[09:37] : it in the show notes.
[09:39] : >> Yeah, I read
[09:41] : David Brooks book The Second Mountain.
[09:43] : >> And you're a David Brooks fan. This is
[09:45] : your second
[09:46] : >> Second book, I think.
[09:48] : This book was I don't know. It It just
[09:50] : brought up so much for me. It was very
[09:53] : life-changing.
[09:54] : The concept is that as younger people we
[09:58] : climb the first mountain in life, which
[10:00] : would be striving for career and family
[10:03] : and success and and
[10:05] : those types of things, car, house.
[10:08] : And at some point in our lives we
[10:13] : you know, have that
[10:15] : What is it? The thing with the soul or
[10:17] : Anyways, we have a
[10:20] : some sort of interrupting event that
[10:23] : that changes everything for us and we
[10:25] : find that what we really want is to
[10:27] : climb this second mountain, which is one
[10:29] : of
[10:30] : giving of the self and
[10:34] : living outside of our own ego-based
[10:37] : approach to life.
[10:38] : >> say we become more service-oriented and
[10:41] : less self-focused, right? Instead of
[10:44] : running around trying to take care of
[10:47] : our immediate family needs and
[10:50] : responsibilities or our career goals,
[10:52] : >> Right.
[10:53] : >> right? Which our career goals often tend
[10:55] : to be that ego. Brad and I are both high
[10:58] : achievers, hard workers. It's hard to
[11:01] : put that down.
[11:02] : >> Right.
[11:02] : >> And so we look
[11:03] : >> that it's
[11:04] : just part of my core, right?
[11:06] : >> Yeah, for sure. And so we're looking at
[11:08] : how can we shift that focus from it's
[11:11] : all about me to it's all about we,
[11:13] : >> Yeah. And he writes it from the the
[11:15] : perspective of uh
[11:18] : where we we have a lot of societal
[11:20] : issues where the fabric that
[11:22] : interleaving of people's lives, whether
[11:25] : it's your neighbor or the lady on the
[11:27] : street watching the kids or or whatever
[11:29] : it is,
[11:31] : that we've had a lot of that decline in
[11:34] : that and degradation in that and and
[11:37] : that um
[11:38] : his point is that our the second
[11:40] : mountain
[11:42] : in in our work to
[11:44] : work with others and we've
[11:47] : um
[11:48] : relationships with them
[11:51] : that
[11:52] : is is so important because it improves
[11:55] : that again.
[11:56] : We have the opportunity to
[11:59] : uh strengthen community or bring it back
[12:01] : where it never was before. Um just a
[12:03] : fascinating book. Uh
[12:05] : you know, he spent a little bit too much
[12:06] : time on his religious journey and and
[12:09] : that that's not really my thing, but um
[12:11] : from a philosophical perspective it's uh
[12:14] : it's quite a book to read.
[12:15] : >> But your Buddhist journey is similar to
[12:17] : that. He just has a a different
[12:19] : >> Yeah.
[12:20] : >> faith foundation, but I think so some of
[12:23] : the things from what Brad has shared and
[12:25] : I've read about the book that are really
[12:28] : aligned with the conversations Brad and
[12:31] : I are having and that I'm having with so
[12:33] : many of the women in my community have
[12:36] : to do with finding purpose and meaning
[12:38] : in our lives and there's it's very very
[12:41] : common for women in particular, maybe
[12:45] : more than men. This is one of those
[12:46] : questions we can ask if there are men
[12:49] : listening or you're having this
[12:50] : conversation with your spouse, but
[12:53] : there's this desire for reconnecting to
[12:56] : spirituality and spirituality can be
[12:59] : defined in so many different ways that
[13:04] : it um
[13:06] : can simply be feeling connected to
[13:08] : something larger than ourselves.
[13:10] : >> Yeah.
[13:10] : >> Right? And that larger than yourself can
[13:13] : be nature, it can be God, right? It can
[13:17] : be a relationships, right? As um Tory
[13:20] : said, it really does come down to the
[13:22] : relationships with our life and what we
[13:24] : want out of those relationships and what
[13:26] : we have to give.
[13:27] : >> Yeah, and what we're willing to put into
[13:29] : it. And And this is coming from someone
[13:31] : who's
[13:31] : >> to put into it is a big part of the
[13:33] : conversation.
[13:34] : >> And And this is
[13:35] : um
[13:36] : you know, I'm
[13:38] : admittedly introverted and
[13:40] : >> Shy.
[13:41] : >> shy and not uh
[13:43] : I'm not a good joiner and never have
[13:45] : been. And so
[13:46] : it's always a stretch for me to
[13:49] : to
[13:50] : go outwards. And so a book like this
[13:53] : makes me question that quite a bit.
[13:55] : >> [laughter]
[13:55] : >> Yeah, and they've they've been some some
[13:57] : good reads. But we want to hear from you
[14:00] : guys. And so we have a fun quick poll
[14:03] : for you all about clutter because it has
[14:06] : been such a topic of conversation
[14:10] : lately. We want to know how full are
[14:12] : your closets.
[14:13] : >> Th- This is This is what we call a
[14:14] : leading indicator for uh how much you
[14:17] : need to release from your from your
[14:19] : life.
[14:19] : >> just type A, B, or C. Or if you have a
[14:23] : different answer than one of these, type
[14:25] : that into the chat. And if you have
[14:28] : questions along the way, we're watching
[14:30] : the chat as we go. Feel free to type
[14:33] : your comments and your questions
[14:35] : um right into the chat.
[14:39] : Well, thank you for saying we're
[14:40] : adorable.
[14:42] : >> Uh the books were Release and Deep Work.
[14:46] : >> No. No. No.
[14:47] : Release and The Second Mountain. Deep
[14:49] : Work was another um
[14:51] : >> [laughter]
[14:51] : >> another uh favorite book.
[14:53] : >> We've got A's, B's, and C's.
[14:56] : >> Yeah, so we're all all over the map,
[14:58] : right? C, but still too much.
[15:00] : >> Not that many C's.
[15:01] : >> Yeah.
[15:03] : Well, give them a chance to answer here.
[15:06] : I mean, if you look at our closet, I
[15:09] : agree. It's our our bedroom closet is
[15:12] : relatively neat and tidy. And yet the
[15:15] : drawers are full and could definitely
[15:18] : use some help. Messy, but there's room.
[15:21] : That's my whole studio. I have a 1,200
[15:23] : square foot studio.
[15:24] : >> I'll give you an example. Over over the
[15:27] : last uh
[15:29] : what? 25 years, we moved full house
[15:32] : three times.
[15:32] : >> Yep. And we let go of so much every
[15:35] : time.
[15:35] : >> were still boxes that made it through
[15:38] : all those.
[15:39] : >> Yeah. Sheila, of course you're a C. My
[15:42] : neat and tidy and organized friend. It's
[15:44] : the desk. Yes. Totally. Yeah.
[15:47] : >> of A's and B's though.
[15:49] : >> Yeah, yeah, for sure. And not to have We
[15:52] : have no judgement about anyone else's
[15:55] : closets.
[15:56] : >> Oh, I totally do. I'm judgy. [laughter]
[15:58] : >> And um it's simply noticing. It's
[16:01] : another thing that Brad and I talk a lot
[16:03] : about and we talk a lot about in the
[16:04] : sisterhood as well. It's like really
[16:06] : pausing to look around. Right? Really
[16:10] : pausing to look around. Uh I love Julie,
[16:13] : I know you just redid your bedroom, too,
[16:16] : right? Container Store closets. And if
[16:19] : you're still messy, um we love our
[16:21] : Container Store closet that Brad built
[16:23] : himself as well. It makes a lot of
[16:26] : difference to have the right types of
[16:28] : containers. And there's a really fun
[16:32] : quiz that was Clutterbug.
[16:34] : >> Clutterbug, yeah.
[16:35] : >> was her name. She's a organizer and she
[16:38] : had a fun quiz on what type of organizer
[16:42] : you are.
[16:43] : >> Yeah, that was very well done.
[16:45] : >> so helpful and I am 100% a butterfly,
[16:48] : which means I need to be able to see
[16:49] : everything. So, I started shifting
[16:52] : everything in my studio from boxes I
[16:54] : couldn't see inside of to clear boxes
[16:58] : and it's made like little small things
[17:00] : like that make a difference. Um but it
[17:03] : also forced me to go through every box
[17:04] : in my studio
[17:05] : >> Yeah.
[17:06] : >> a few times and get rid of things that
[17:07] : I'm not using and donate those. Yeah.
[17:10] : So, we could talk about this topic all
[17:12] : day long, but let's go ahead and move on
[17:14] : to our main conversation. Who are we
[17:16] : becoming in the second half of life?
[17:18] : >> Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure,
[17:21] : Minette.
[17:22] : >> [laughter]
[17:23] : >> I know you're not sure, but you haven't
[17:25] : been sure for several years now.
[17:27] : >> Yeah, for real. This one hit me hard.
[17:30] : You know, we
[17:32] : like most people
[17:34] : Well, maybe not like most people, I
[17:35] : don't know. I I ended a
[17:38] : you know, the bulk of our career in
[17:40] : software
[17:41] : finished up a job and
[17:44] : both kids left the house and we ended up
[17:48] : moving
[17:49] : and
[17:51] : you know, other rigmarole with kids and
[17:54] : all of a sudden I looked up and I said
[17:56] : to Minette, I just I have no idea who I
[17:58] : am.
[17:59] : And
[18:00] : you know, I've been digging into that
[18:02] : deeper over the last
[18:03] : >> 3 years, 4 years, 4 years since we
[18:05] : moved.
[18:06] : >> don't.
[18:07] : >> [laughter]
[18:09] : >> Oh, boy.
[18:10] : >> And I don't you know, I don't know. Is
[18:12] : that true? I think you know who you are
[18:14] : at the core and there's a difference
[18:15] : between knowing who we are, liking who
[18:18] : we are and choosing what it is we want
[18:22] : to focus on in our lives.
[18:24] : >> Yeah, this uh
[18:26] : you know, this idea of um
[18:29] : I I have it in a course that was written
[18:32] : by a like a
[18:35] : army doctor, you know
[18:37] : emergency out in the field type of
[18:39] : doctor, field doctor um
[18:42] : presents it more as a mission type of
[18:44] : thing.
[18:45] : Um
[18:46] : this book that we just talked about,
[18:47] : second half of life, it's you know,
[18:50] : positioned as a mountain.
[18:52] : Um is it a is it a mission? Is it your
[18:54] : purpose?
[18:56] : The ER doc said he wanted to look at
[18:58] : things in terms of a 10-year scope. Um
[19:02] : you know, where where do you want to be
[19:03] : in 10 years?
[19:04] : >> And I'm going to be 71 in 10 years.
[19:07] : Right? That's a big difference from oh,
[19:09] : I'm I'm to be 50 or I'm going to be 60,
[19:11] : or I'm going to be 71 in 10 years.
[19:14] : >> Um
[19:15] : but
[19:17] : it uh I wanted to look back at my notes.
[19:19] : I had something here.
[19:21] : Oh, I know what it was. I I think what's
[19:24] : come out of this a lot is that
[19:27] : um my career and my striving and what
[19:29] : we'll call that first mountain, you
[19:31] : know, for
[19:32] : build the house and the kids and the the
[19:34] : family and the career.
[19:37] : Um
[19:38] : that always allowed me to cover up not
[19:41] : really having any
[19:43] : mission of my own. That was the mission,
[19:46] : and I don't regret that at all.
[19:49] : I mean, I did a good job of at least I
[19:52] : think so.
[19:53] : >> [laughter]
[19:53] : >> Making money and and getting houses and
[19:56] : cars and families and kids. Um but it
[19:59] : >> Yeah, we were good at making babies.
[20:01] : >> Yeah, right. But it it allowed me to not
[20:04] : have to think about those bigger things.
[20:07] : And hey, maybe this is just what happens
[20:10] : when you turn
[20:11] : whatever I am, 58 or 55.
[20:14] : >> Yeah, he's younger than I am. Just
[20:15] : saying.
[20:16] : >> I think there's some people that come
[20:17] : out of the womb knowing this stuff, like
[20:19] : a
[20:20] : You see it in in doctors or teachers or
[20:24] : or the clergy. They just or they just
[20:25] : know. And uh I don't think I ever did.
[20:28] : Um And so
[20:30] : this is where it's exposed me. Like it
[20:32] : feels exposed.
[20:34] : >> Yeah.
[20:34] : >> Because I don't have that I can't
[20:38] : I don't have the excuse where I'm I have
[20:40] : a job to go to every day. That type of
[20:42] : thing where it covers it up.
[20:43] : >> Yeah, and I've been the opposite. I've
[20:45] : been very mission driven, but that
[20:47] : mission changes every 8 to 10 years.
[20:49] : People that know me
[20:51] : I do. I get happy feet. I get bored. The
[20:54] : creative in me me that gets this longing
[20:57] : to create something new. And this is my
[20:59] : third business, and Brad has helped with
[21:02] : all of those businesses in so many
[21:05] : different ways. But I think for me it's
[21:08] : like
[21:09] : for me there had to be a mission. There
[21:11] : in every time I've switched, it's
[21:13] : aligned with where I am at this stage of
[21:15] : life. So it's no surprise that at 61 I'm
[21:18] : supporting other women in life after 50
[21:22] : to figure out how to answer this
[21:24] : question, right? Um it is it's
[21:27] : impossible to follow a passion when you
[21:30] : don't know what that is. And Brad has
[21:33] : mentioned multiple times lately this
[21:36] : he's working on my passion right now.
[21:39] : Right? And that's you know, this is
[21:41] : business is my dream and I couldn't do
[21:43] : it alone. And so this show is also about
[21:47] : how do we voice his part in that and
[21:49] : make your creative input so much more
[21:52] : visible. But when I think about over the
[21:55] : last 35 years that we've known each
[21:58] : other, you know, one of the questions is
[22:00] : how have we changed over that time? Like
[22:03] : what got us to that place
[22:06] : of questioning who am I now? And I can
[22:08] : very clearly pinpoint those moments when
[22:11] : that question felt so urgent and it was
[22:15] : in our last business, our when we were
[22:18] : had a business coaching company, when we
[22:20] : were working together called Path to
[22:22] : Profit where we worked with artists and
[22:24] : creatives on building their business.
[22:26] : And that was a shared vision
[22:29] : for sure. And there came a moment in
[22:31] : that business where I started to
[22:33] : question who am I, what am I doing? I'm
[22:36] : missing the art part. There was this
[22:38] : just almost insatiable desire and
[22:42] : longing to have more time for creative
[22:44] : expression. I didn't expect that to
[22:46] : become my business, the focus of my
[22:49] : business, but I knew it needed to
[22:51] : change. But I think when I look back,
[22:53] : the the places where we've grown
[22:55] : together and individually, just so much
[22:58] : less interested in performing and more
[23:01] : interested in telling the truth.
[23:04] : For me, being rooted in creativity has
[23:06] : changed everything. Um and that second
[23:10] : mountain piece, like my devotion to
[23:12] : supporting others on their journey, it's
[23:15] : less about my journey. I feel very clear
[23:17] : about who I am and what my mission and
[23:20] : purpose are. Brad doesn't. So, right,
[23:23] : there's some disconnect there as well.
[23:25] : Yeah, you will. You will.
[23:28] : >> Um
[23:29] : I I
[23:30] : I think of myself as a
[23:32] : multi-potentialite
[23:33] : as well.
[23:34] : >> sure. Yeah, for sure, which is one of
[23:36] : the best Ted Ted Ted Talks out there.
[23:40] : >> That uh
[23:41] : can be a struggle as well because
[23:44] : it means that I'm
[23:46] : I'm latched on to your business and I'm
[23:49] : latched on to another idea and another
[23:50] : idea and another idea.
[23:52] : And uh that can make it hard to find
[23:54] : what your passion is when you're when
[23:56] : you get passion from all of the things.
[23:59] : >> [laughter]
[23:59] : >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I
[24:02] : Does that say Luna? Luna said she read
[24:05] : an article about how life is what gave
[24:07] : us structure and now we have to create
[24:10] : our own, which is true if you're an
[24:11] : entrepreneur as well. Like when you work
[24:14] : for a company, there's this pre-existing
[24:16] : structure.
[24:16] : >> Right.
[24:17] : >> Right? And owning a business, I have I
[24:20] : get to I get to and I have to create
[24:23] : structure. But it's a great way of
[24:25] : describing what I'm hearing people say
[24:28] : when they retire. And all of a sudden,
[24:30] : all that structure is gone and you feel
[24:33] : lost and you feel like you're
[24:34] : floundering, right? And I think also so
[24:38] : much of that first mountain was about
[24:40] : adding more to our lives, more
[24:42] : credentials, more achievement, more
[24:44] : clarity, more success, right? The
[24:47] : bonuses, the bigger salary.
[24:49] : >> That was I spent 30 years on the
[24:52] : software ladder and
[24:54] : my only job at the meta level was to try
[24:56] : and move up that ladder and I worked
[24:58] : hard to do that.
[24:59] : >> Mhm.
[24:59] : >> Um
[25:00] : like it you know, there wasn't a point
[25:02] : in not striving in my mind.
[25:05] : >> [laughter]
[25:05] : >> Yeah.
[25:05] : >> Moving away from that is a whole new
[25:07] : world.
[25:08] : >> Yeah, and it's interesting because I
[25:10] : think when we talk about all the
[25:12] : identity shifts and the the things that
[25:15] : have changed where that first mountain
[25:18] : is about adding, it feels like this
[25:20] : stage of life is about subtracting.
[25:22] : Right? Um my becoming is related to what
[25:26] : I want less of, right? Not about how do
[25:29] : I become better, but how do I become
[25:32] : more myself.
[25:33] : >> Right.
[25:34] : >> All the time, right? And what does that
[25:36] : look like? You know, what does this self
[25:37] : look like when I look in that mirror, do
[25:40] : I recognize that woman who's looking
[25:42] : back at me? And I've been
[25:44] : >> I do.
[25:45] : >> [laughter]
[25:46] : >> I'm so glad. And you know, thinking
[25:49] : about this idea of who are we becoming
[25:52] : at this stage of life has everything to
[25:55] : do with time and energy. And on Brad and
[25:58] : I love listening to audiobooks on road
[26:01] : trips. It's like our our thing. We talk
[26:03] : about them, you know, we reflect on
[26:05] : them. And we've read one a number of
[26:07] : years ago called The Power of Full
[26:09] : Engagement by Jim Loehr and Tony
[26:12] : Schwartz. And it was all about how to
[26:15] : manage your energy, not your time.
[26:17] : And out of all the books we've read,
[26:19] : it's one that has just really stuck with
[26:21] : me because I'm so good at overfilling my
[26:25] : time. You can ask Brad, I don't rest
[26:27] : well. I don't sit still well. My hands
[26:30] : always have to be busy. And I learned
[26:33] : some painful lessons about overfilling
[26:36] : my calendar with people, which meant I
[26:37] : didn't get enough time for my own
[26:39] : creative practice. And I don't want to
[26:42] : become a hermit. So these days it's
[26:45] : about how do we have more time together
[26:47] : where we're not talking about the
[26:49] : business, which we love to do. And how
[26:51] : do we take time off, like truly step
[26:55] : away from everything we're doing, but
[26:57] : what can I let go of? Cuz I'm really
[26:58] : good at complicating things.
[27:00] : >> [laughter]
[27:01] : >> As well, right? And how can I simplify?
[27:04] : So, for me, that second mountain has a
[27:06] : lot to do with subtraction. Right back
[27:08] : to our topic of releasing. So, it's
[27:11] : releasing being busy has been a big part
[27:15] : of my journey of becoming, I think.
[27:17] : >> Yeah, and and you know, there's
[27:19] : there's some practical reasons for that,
[27:21] : too. We we uh
[27:23] : we're right in the middle of
[27:25] : uh aging parents and trying to help them
[27:28] : out, and there needs to be time in our
[27:29] : lives for that, and uh
[27:32] : uh that's certainly changing me.
[27:34] : Minette's had uh
[27:35] : that for a bit of a longer period, but
[27:38] : um yeah, I'm in the thick of it right
[27:40] : now, and
[27:41] : so, there needs to be more space for
[27:43] : that in our lives, and I I can't uh
[27:47] : you know, living the life of striving
[27:51] : is
[27:52] : it's in opposition to trying to
[27:56] : make spaciousness, to be patient, and um
[28:00] : and loving with parents that that need
[28:02] : extra help. Um
[28:04] : >> Yeah, and Brad's dad told him on a
[28:06] : recent visit to not wait to do the
[28:09] : things that you want to do at all,
[28:12] : right? And so, you know, that's very
[28:13] : >> Yeah, he told me that
[28:14] : maybe 10 years ago, maybe in my 40s.
[28:17] : >> told you again recently.
[28:19] : >> Yeah.
[28:20] : >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[28:20] : >> Yeah, don't wait to travel, don't wait
[28:22] : to do the things that you want to do.
[28:24] : And in fact, I think I said this on one
[28:26] : of our calls, I'd be wealthy if I had a
[28:29] : dime for every time someone said, "Oh,
[28:31] : I'll pick my art up again when I retire,
[28:33] : or I'll travel when I'll retire, or I'll
[28:36] : do this, I'll start my exercise, right?"
[28:38] : Or I'll move, or whatever it is that we
[28:41] : tend to put off reward and celebration
[28:45] : until we're done with that achievement
[28:47] : part.
[28:48] : >> Right. And I'm a big fan of stopping and
[28:50] : pausing to celebrate along the way and I
[28:53] : talk about that a lot and I have to
[28:54] : remember to do it myself. And so we hold
[28:57] : each other accountable for a lot of
[28:59] : these things, for the taking time off,
[29:01] : for the resting, for the celebrating,
[29:04] : for looking at what's working instead of
[29:06] : always seeing what's going wrong.
[29:09] : >> I have no background in celebrating
[29:11] : wins.
[29:12] : I love celebrating wins for other
[29:14] : people, but in terms of myself, I don't
[29:16] : I don't spend that time and and it's to
[29:19] : my detriment. So Minette helps with
[29:21] : that.
[29:21] : >> [laughter]
[29:23] : >> Yes, to doing the fun stuff now, right
[29:25] : Karenjoy? Yes, it's Karen and I are both
[29:29] : getting ready to take road trips. We're
[29:32] : both big road trip fans and in fact Brad
[29:34] : and I within a few months of knowing
[29:37] : each other, we knew we both love road
[29:40] : trips and our very first travel together
[29:44] : was we flew from San Francisco to San
[29:48] : Diego, took a taxi across the border to
[29:50] : Tijuana, rented a car in Tijuana and
[29:53] : drove halfway down Baja California for a
[29:57] : week or so. This is when I was still in
[29:59] : grad school at Stanford.
[30:01] : >> little town and beach called Mulege,
[30:03] : about halfway down on the Sea of Cortez.
[30:06] : Fantastic place.
[30:07] : >> Yeah, and we camped. Yes.
[30:09] : >> Yep.
[30:09] : >> Yes, no glamping. It was camping for
[30:12] : sure. But there's no better way to get
[30:15] : to know each other than through
[30:18] : traveling together for sure.
[30:20] : >> Well, that'll be one of the one of our
[30:22] : little pieces of wisdom we'll talk about
[30:24] : later in terms of walking together.
[30:27] : >> Yeah, so I really want to move on and
[30:29] : talk about the the shift in identity
[30:33] : that happens as we age. And this happens
[30:36] : at multiple points in our lives, right?
[30:38] : It happens when we graduate college and
[30:41] : start our careers. It all of a sudden
[30:43] : then we realize maybe we're in the wrong
[30:45] : career and there might be another big
[30:47] : shift or you might be a lifer in your
[30:50] : career of choice. And then when that
[30:52] : career is gone, your identity also feels
[30:56] : like it's gone because so much of us is
[30:59] : wrapped up in that external trappings of
[31:02] : success or for those of you that were
[31:05] : stay-at-home parents, right? And the
[31:07] : kids are gone and you had this focus and
[31:10] : direction in your life for so long and
[31:12] : then all of a sudden you find yourself
[31:14] : facing an empty nest. We are very happy
[31:18] : empty nesters, right? And that doesn't
[31:20] : mean that that first year wasn't hard
[31:23] : and painful, right? And so it's this
[31:27] : constant tension between the roles we
[31:30] : played and as parents of young adults,
[31:33] : 27 and 24-year-olds, our relationship
[31:36] : with our kids is is changing. Like Tory
[31:38] : said, it's all about the relationship.
[31:40] : What does that look like at this stage
[31:42] : of life? How do we stay connected and
[31:44] : curious and interested in these young
[31:48] : adults who are becoming their own people
[31:51] : and are so much separate from us than
[31:53] : they've ever been before. So our
[31:56] : parenting role is changing. Our
[31:58] : caregiving role is changing. So as Brad
[32:03] : mentioned, I have a lot of parents. My
[32:05] : mom's been married a few times to great
[32:08] : guys all around and so I've already lost
[32:12] : a stepmom and a stepdad, both of them
[32:15] : within within oh, 2007 and 2014.
[32:20] : But now we're sitting with watching our
[32:22] : parents age before our eyes. And maybe
[32:26] : you are the person that is aging in
[32:28] : before your children's eyes and it's
[32:31] : such a different stage of life to be in.
[32:34] : I think it gives a lot of perspective.
[32:37] : And Brad had a Substack for a while.
[32:40] : Um that was all about thriving
[32:44] : to 99 and beyond as opposed to striving.
[32:47] : And I think this idea of identity is
[32:51] : What am I doing today that
[32:54] : makes me
[32:56] : have the strength, the vitality, the
[32:58] : vibrancy, the creativity in my 80s that
[33:02] : I want to have, right?
[33:04] : >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[33:05] : >> And the physical energy and stamina to
[33:07] : keep doing all the things that I love.
[33:09] : >> Yeah, you're not going to
[33:13] : What I was writing about was
[33:15] : you know, avoiding
[33:17] : um
[33:19] : There's There's a difference between
[33:21] : lifespan
[33:22] : and life uh
[33:24] : >> expectancy?
[33:25] : >> Um oh, how the terms that the term
[33:29] : eludes me. Anyways,
[33:31] : >> It'll come back.
[33:31] : >> The The point is to be thriving in your
[33:33] : 80s and not just living in your 80s. And
[33:36] : to do that, you know, there's some
[33:38] : health things that need to happen in
[33:40] : terms of uh
[33:42] : >> [gasps]
[33:42] : >> lifting weights and taking supplements
[33:44] : and so on and so forth. Um
[33:46] : But yeah,
[33:47] : it's like everything we do right now is
[33:50] : we're we're looking at
[33:53] : What does this mean for us down the
[33:54] : road?
[33:55] : >> Yeah.
[33:55] : >> I don't know that we
[33:57] : looked at that as much in in our
[33:59] : >> 40s.
[34:00] : >> 40s or career days.
[34:01] : >> Back when we were still drinking our way
[34:03] : through
[34:04] : >> Yeah, we
[34:05] : >> family gatherings and
[34:06] : >> Just trying to, you know, get the kids
[34:09] : to practice or whatever.
[34:10] : >> Yeah. But we talk about this a lot cuz
[34:13] : if we're having a conversation about who
[34:15] : who are we becoming in the second half
[34:18] : of our life, we can't leave out the
[34:21] : conversation about health.
[34:24] : At all, right? And it's something that
[34:26] : Brad and I have both struggled with
[34:28] : consistency
[34:29] : around, right? [snorts] And you know,
[34:32] : self-perspective around. And if we stay
[34:35] : focused on what can I do today to become
[34:40] : the woman or man that I want to be
[34:41] : tomorrow, I think it shifts how we
[34:44] : choose to spend our energy and our time.
[34:47] : >> Yeah, and and we're not uh
[34:52] : I don't know. I think that we just spend
[34:54] : a lot of time as younger people not
[34:56] : worrying about those things. And
[34:59] : because, you know, it's typical, right?
[35:01] : You can just sort of blast through. You
[35:03] : had the
[35:04] : You went out late on a Friday night and
[35:06] : you got up early on a Saturday morning
[35:08] : or whatever and
[35:10] : just push through. It didn't matter. And
[35:12] : it's not as easy. I mean,
[35:15] : in in a lot of ways
[35:18] : maybe it is as easy, but you're just not
[35:19] : as willing to do it at this age.
[35:22] : And so,
[35:24] : um
[35:25] : it's it's front and center in terms of
[35:27] : of
[35:28] : uh
[35:29] : of
[35:30] : making your making your way through the
[35:31] : day and the plans that we make um
[35:34] : is how great our sleep is going to be
[35:36] : and and things like that. I'm getting
[35:39] : better at that. I'm still not very good.
[35:40] : >> For sure. But, it is part of the
[35:42] : identity question. So, I want to circle
[35:44] : back around
[35:45] : to this idea of identity because it's
[35:47] : the number one question that we hear
[35:49] : over and over and over again in every
[35:52] : workshop, live event, right?
[35:55] : Conversations between us. It's who am I
[35:57] : now? And so often we feel like this is a
[36:00] : crisis. I think it's where midlife
[36:02] : crisis comes from is because we can no
[36:04] : longer confidently say, "Well, I am da
[36:08] : da da da da." Right? And so when we that
[36:11] : ground literally falls out from
[36:13] : underneath us because of the roles we
[36:15] : played and it leaves us either just
[36:18] : floundering and lost or like a hamster
[36:21] : on a wheel running around in circles
[36:23] : trying to find the answer.
[36:25] : >> I was completely lost.
[36:27] : >> So lost.
[36:28] : >> Yeah.
[36:28] : >> Yeah. Yes, it was painful.
[36:30] : >> Rudderless.
[36:31] : >> Yes. And you know, I think if we think
[36:33] : about this question, who am I now,
[36:36] : through the lens of curiosity
[36:38] : and the opportunity to forge something
[36:43] : new and at the same time true, right?
[36:47] : There's a part of us that got put aside
[36:50] : at some point in our lives. Um whether
[36:53] : it was being an athlete or an artist,
[36:56] : right? Or Brad always wanted to be an
[36:58] : astronaut.
[36:59] : >> Sure.
[36:59] : >> Yeah. And still like still
[37:01] : >> want to go to space?
[37:03] : >> [laughter]
[37:03] : >> Still loves rockets. Watching the rocket
[37:05] : launches.
[37:06] : >> Absolutely.
[37:06] : >> Yeah. And you know, it's like there's
[37:09] : that part of me that always wanted to be
[37:10] : a cowgirl, right? Well, how can I bring
[37:13] : that back? I grew up in Texas, by the
[37:15] : way. He grew up in Canada.
[37:17] : Very different places and perspectives.
[37:19] : But when we think back to
[37:22] : I don't need to go be a cowgirl, but
[37:24] : what was the promise of that?
[37:26] : And what part of my identity
[37:30] : got wrapped up into that sense of
[37:32] : freedom and adventure? I had a horse
[37:34] : growing up. I had a lot of freedom to
[37:35] : just get on my horse and ride around my
[37:38] : neighborhood on my own without any
[37:40] : parental supervision. Totally a Gen X
[37:43] : latchkey kid. Had a lot of freedom,
[37:45] : right? And when did work and life and
[37:48] : career and kids get in the way of
[37:52] : embracing that freedom? So I think about
[37:54] : that a lot, which has to do with
[37:56] : subtraction, not addition.
[37:57] : >> Right.
[37:58] : >> Right? It has to do with having the time
[37:59] : and spaciousness to embrace that. I
[38:02] : don't want to own a horse anymore. I
[38:04] : don't want to own a a ranch or a big
[38:05] : piece of property anymore. I don't want
[38:07] : to work that hard. But how can I create
[38:10] : those pockets of freedom in my life
[38:12] : because it's a a core part of who I am.
[38:16] : >> Yeah, it's interesting. Um was I
[38:19] : might have been Huberman I was listening
[38:21] : to one of the podcasts, but
[38:23] : um
[38:24] : Or no, actually, it might have been
[38:25] : Albert Brooks um talking to Chris
[38:28] : Williamson on a podcast talking about
[38:31] : how
[38:31] : >> Arthur Arthur Brooks
[38:32] : >> Arthur Brooks, Albert Brooks, Mel Brooks
[38:36] : >> [laughter]
[38:36] : >> There's too many Brooks, David Brooks.
[38:38] : Um
[38:39] : talking about how when we look back
[38:42] : it was the things that really excited
[38:44] : us.
[38:45] : >> Yeah, that's a great way to put it.
[38:47] : >> Mhm.
[38:47] : >> And you know, when we're sitting here
[38:49] : and thinking about it, um
[38:53] : I was I was very creative. Um
[38:56] : Like my mind just wants to create. It
[38:58] : just wants to go.
[38:59] : Um
[39:01] : and run around outside.
[39:04] : And you know, being in nature and I
[39:06] : don't know that I'm really that
[39:07] : different now.
[39:08] : >> to say what that looks like now is slow
[39:09] : bird walks.
[39:10] : >> Yeah, right. [laughter]
[39:12] : But I don't know that I'm really that
[39:14] : different from that kid.
[39:15] : >> Yeah.
[39:15] : >> Um
[39:17] : So, how can I
[39:18] : uh bring more of that into my identity,
[39:20] : like you said.
[39:21] : >> Yeah, those evening walks after dinner I
[39:24] : shared on one of the sisterhood calls
[39:26] : this week about our evening walk. We saw
[39:29] : a nighthawk. We saw a black-crowned
[39:31] : night-heron, which was an unexpected and
[39:33] : fun gift. And normally after 8:00 you
[39:36] : can't get us up and out the the door,
[39:38] : but we did get up and out. It was a
[39:41] : beautiful sunset. So, it's a reminder to
[39:44] : get up and out, right? I can spend a lot
[39:47] : of time down here in my studio by myself
[39:51] : making art and listening to, you know,
[39:53] : all kinds of fantasy fiction on my
[39:55] : Audible. [laughter]
[39:56] : But it I think then, you know, from the
[39:59] : identity, another way of answering the
[40:02] : question
[40:05] : around who am I now has to do with
[40:07] : looking at what matters, right? That
[40:09] : idea of meaning-making and what makes
[40:11] : life fulfilling. You know, for things
[40:14] : that are so important for me or that
[40:16] : just unconditional love of self and
[40:19] : others, peace, honesty, freedom,
[40:22] : friendship, health and energy, having
[40:25] : meaningful work, time in nature. So when
[40:28] : I look at what matters now,
[40:31] : it's so different than what mattered a
[40:33] : decade or two decades ago. And I think
[40:37] : that's part of that second mountain
[40:39] : that we're maybe just at the base of and
[40:42] : looking at climbing towards.
[40:45] : >> Yeah, and like I said, this one course
[40:48] : that I took from the ER doctor,
[40:50] : um you know, talking about mission and
[40:53] : what it is and and once again, same
[40:55] : thing with this David Brooks book. Um
[40:59] : that one's really got me questioning
[41:00] : myself.
[41:01] : You know, I'm
[41:03] : I haven't been someone who lived their
[41:04] : life outward focused and I'm not sure if
[41:08] : I have it in me and I'm not sure if
[41:10] : that's if
[41:11] : you know, maybe my version of that is
[41:13] : just writing.
[41:15] : >> [laughter]
[41:15] : >> Yeah.
[41:16] : >> Um and
[41:16] : >> Yeah, you haven't talked about your your
[41:18] : writing at all as one of the ways that
[41:20] : you're finding
[41:21] : >> Maybe that's
[41:22] : Maybe that's a way for me to be to live
[41:24] : outwards. Um
[41:27] : And I I just tag along with Manette in
[41:29] : terms of
[41:30] : friend groups.
[41:31] : >> [laughter]
[41:33] : >> We'll see.
[41:34] : >> Brad used to have a name tag that had
[41:36] : his name on it and an arrow that said,
[41:38] : "I'm with Manette." When we used to do a
[41:40] : a lot of networking back in the day,
[41:43] : right? And so
[41:46] : we've alluded at it, but let's kind of
[41:48] : pull together some of our thoughts
[41:50] : around what are we still trying to
[41:51] : figure out?
[41:53] : >> Okay.
[41:53] : >> Cuz that's so much of who I'm where who
[41:55] : we're becoming. And as who we're
[41:56] : becoming individually, as
[41:59] : children of aging parents, as parents of
[42:03] : growing grown adults, right? And as a
[42:06] : couple, being married, there's so many
[42:08] : aspects to this. It is so easy to get
[42:11] : focused on the like who is this right
[42:13] : here.
[42:14] : >> Sure.
[42:14] : >> But, we're not becoming in isolation
[42:17] : unless you live in a hut somewhere in
[42:19] : the wilderness, which he would love and
[42:21] : I would not.
[42:22] : >> I don't know. This concept of a 10-year
[42:25] : look forward as a mission
[42:27] : >> [laughter]
[42:28] : >> is
[42:28] : >> Tori says you can be our friend. I think
[42:30] : Bob and Brad would get along well, Tori.
[42:33] : >> Free friends, just had to get on camera.
[42:35] : Um yeah, this this concept of a 10-year
[42:38] : mission is something that I can get my
[42:40] : mind around, whether that's a
[42:42] : you know, I'm not going to change the
[42:43] : world, but um
[42:46] : I think it's it's a worthy a worthy
[42:48] : approach
[42:50] : uh in terms of what I want to become is
[42:52] : just figure out what that mission is.
[42:54] : >> [laughter]
[42:54] : >> Yeah.
[42:55] : >> answer that right now.
[42:56] : >> Yeah, for sure. And you'll get there.
[42:59] : I think part of it is we are both still
[43:02] : ambitious people. We do have goals and
[43:06] : dreams that are both inner and
[43:08] : outward-facing. And so, how can we honor
[43:12] : our ambition without it becoming the
[43:15] : overworking, striving, pushing, right?
[43:18] : Hustle energy of our 30s and 40s.
[43:21] : >> Sure. Sure.
[43:22] : >> How do we release clutter um
[43:25] : without rushing the grief, right? You
[43:28] : know, so much of the stuff we're holding
[43:30] : onto has memories.
[43:33] : So many memories, right? And it can be
[43:35] : really hard to let go when we feel like
[43:38] : maybe we're letting go of a person.
[43:40] : >> Yeah, or or our identity.
[43:42] : >> Or our identity, right? You know, the
[43:45] : closet full of work clothes or dress
[43:47] : clothes. Yeah, for sure.
[43:49] : >> You know,
[43:50] : >> what do you think?
[43:51] : >> What?
[43:52] : >> Should we wrap this part up?
[43:53] : >> going to wrap this part up? I could keep
[43:54] : going for days, but we will will we will
[43:57] : be back again. Yes, so let's wrap it up
[43:59] : with our our final section of real life
[44:02] : wisdom.
[44:03] : >> Yeah.
[44:04] : >> And we're showing the slides to make it
[44:05] : easy to to break this out into uh parts
[44:08] : later, so bear with us.
[44:11] : >> So,
[44:13] : Minette came up with two things
[44:16] : that we think are integral
[44:20] : >> say that differently?
[44:21] : >> [laughter]
[44:22] : >> I'm not telling you what wisdom is.
[44:24] : >> with Minette on this.
[44:26] : No, um so two things we wanted to talk
[44:29] : about.
[44:30] : Um one is journaling and one is walking
[44:32] : together.
[44:34] : Um
[44:34] : So, journaling, actually let's do the
[44:37] : walking together cuz I think we've done
[44:39] : this longer probably.
[44:41] : Um
[44:43] : We've walked together for a long time.
[44:46] : Um two or three miles a day mostly.
[44:49] : Uh and we miss our days, but
[44:51] : I think in in some years it was running
[44:53] : and jogging and other years it was
[44:55] : walking, but
[44:57] : I think I've maintained all along it's
[44:59] : awfully hard to stay mad at someone
[45:02] : on a two or three mile walk or a seven
[45:04] : mile run.
[45:05] : >> [laughter]
[45:06] : >> Um
[45:07] : And so, you know, for those days when we
[45:10] : were we were struggling, it was still a
[45:12] : way to get past that. Um
[45:15] : because you're just not going to spend
[45:17] : an hour on the trail with someone
[45:19] : and say nothing. Maybe maybe some of you
[45:22] : on the chat might disagree, but
[45:24] : >> We do, but it's comfortable silence.
[45:26] : >> Yeah, not not the side eye type of
[45:27] : stuff.
[45:30] : We work around the seasons and right
[45:32] : now, you know, an evening walk is great.
[45:34] : We're Colorado Now we're in Colorado, we
[45:36] : have actual seasons and
[45:38] : um you know, there's some mornings when
[45:40] : it's
[45:41] : minus 10 and windy and maybe it's a very
[45:43] : short walk, but
[45:45] : um
[45:45] : >> Or a no walk.
[45:47] : >> But I think
[45:47] : >> No no walk.
[45:48] : >> The the more
[45:49] : >> Windy minus 10 no walk.
[45:51] : >> The more important part is that um
[45:55] : there's just so many walks when we go
[45:58] : really deep either on personal issues or
[46:01] : on the business or both. And there's
[46:03] : some days when it's just me and some day
[46:06] : you know, talking and some days when
[46:08] : it's Minette talking where she's got
[46:10] : you know, all her ideas and um other
[46:13] : days where it's both of us.
[46:14] : And more often than not um
[46:17] : we're just completely in tune on the
[46:19] : ideas coming out of our mouths. It just
[46:21] : takes time to to work through them.
[46:23] : >> Yeah, we're not always in alignment on
[46:25] : the ideas at the same time.
[46:26] : >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[46:27] : >> [laughter]
[46:28] : >> But that that ambulation um
[46:31] : you know, it's what people are
[46:33] : built to do and uh
[46:35] : I think it's an important part of our
[46:37] : our relationship. So, that's that's one
[46:40] : part of the wisdom.
[46:40] : >> Yeah, so Brad and I ran a couple of half
[46:43] : marathons together when we lived in
[46:45] : Texas. Yeah, and the kids were young,
[46:49] : marriage was still relatively young. We
[46:52] : were both focused on career and it was
[46:55] : rough, right? There was a lot of
[46:57] : disconnection that was happening. We
[46:58] : were not at on our own or each other's
[47:02] : the top of that priorities list and the
[47:05] : walking was our version of therapy and
[47:09] : being able to just hash it out, right?
[47:13] : And I still have clear memories of a
[47:15] : beach walk in Goleta where I said, "I am
[47:18] : no longer doing all the cooking and
[47:20] : shopping
[47:21] : >> [laughter]
[47:21] : >> in this house. I can't." And it wasn't
[47:24] : that ever any Brad or anyone ever said,
[47:27] : "Minette, you have to be responsible for
[47:29] : this." But it was how I was raised and I
[47:31] : like to cook, right? But it was that
[47:33] : moment of wow, why am I holding the
[47:37] : burden of this, right? Um all by myself
[47:41] : instead of asking for help. And if Brad
[47:44] : would probably tell you I'm not very
[47:45] : good at asking for support when I need
[47:48] : it. I'm very independent,
[47:50] : >> And
[47:51] : we share that.
[47:52] : >> We do. So, it was that moment of like
[47:55] : how can we shift the way that we are
[47:58] : supporting ourselves and our families
[48:00] : and that came out of a talk, right?
[48:04] : One of one of many many awesome
[48:06] : beautiful beach walks in Goleta. And
[48:08] : then that second thing is journaling.
[48:10] : We're both lifelong writers, journalers,
[48:15] : love to write, have kept journals on and
[48:18] : off for a long time, but I think I would
[48:21] : say in the last decade it's become an
[48:25] : essential part of our personal self-care
[48:28] : is to have some type of journaling
[48:30] : practice. I think currently you're more
[48:32] : consistent than I am.
[48:34] : >> of catching.
[48:35] : >> [laughter]
[48:36] : >> Sometimes it Sometimes I over journal
[48:39] : and it becomes rumination. So, but yeah,
[48:42] : no, I'm a writer and
[48:44] : it's a good way to get my thoughts down
[48:46] : and I I spend a lot of time in my head
[48:48] : and so
[48:49] : it's a and a way a way to externalize
[48:52] : that.
[48:53] : You know, get stuff
[48:54] : out on on paper.
[48:56] : Yeah, pretty critical part of uh
[48:59] : of I think
[49:00] : >> I think that just that identity piece
[49:03] : that like being able to name what's
[49:05] : happening, naming I feel lost, naming I
[49:09] : don't know who I am right now, but also
[49:11] : naming maybe my mission is this, my
[49:13] : values are that.
[49:15] : You know, I've been teaching and working
[49:17] : with core values for over 20 years now
[49:20] : and to me it's such a crucial part of
[49:23] : both identity and purpose is
[49:25] : understanding what your core values are.
[49:28] : And Brad and I steak
[49:30] : >> Steak is one of my core values.
[49:32] : [laughter]
[49:33] : >> Yeah, humor is one of his core values
[49:35] : for sure.
[49:36] : >> true.
[49:37] : >> And you know, so I think if you haven't
[49:39] : looked at your core values in a long
[49:41] : time and you're questioning identity and
[49:43] : mission, it's a it's a great place to
[49:45] : start talking and writing about values.
[49:49] : And my version of journaling has changed
[49:52] : dramatically since, you know, my high
[49:54] : school and college days of keeping a
[49:56] : diary about everything that was
[49:58] : happening to really benefiting from
[50:01] : using prompts and asking myself
[50:04] : questions rather than stream of
[50:05] : consciousness. In fact, so much so that
[50:08] : I just completed my 100-day project here
[50:11] : here on my YouTube channel. You can find
[50:12] : a playlist of our 100-day project where
[50:15] : I did 100 days of prompts that were both
[50:18] : visual and verbal. Um I'm very much a
[50:21] : verbal processor. I'm sorry, Brad. For
[50:23] : 30 years of having to listen to me go
[50:25] : blah trying to figure everything out and
[50:28] : talk things through when they're like
[50:30] : clear as mud. A lot of those walks is me
[50:33] : rambling and him going, I don't get it.
[50:35] : And so journaling is a way to for me to
[50:40] : get through those ideas, get them down
[50:42] : on paper, think about them, talk about
[50:44] : them, and then be able to bring them
[50:46] : into a more fruitful conversation.
[50:49] : >> Good stuff.
[50:50] : >> Yeah, any final questions? We got a
[50:52] : couple of more minutes here. Any
[50:53] : questions for us that you'd love to ask?
[50:56] : >> know we were on a timer.
[50:57] : >> We're not on a timer. Yeah, but you
[50:59] : know, we could go all day. Or any
[51:03] : suggestions for topics you'd love to
[51:05] : hear from us. Next episode we're going
[51:07] : to be talking about why creativity and
[51:10] : creative expression matters so much to
[51:12] : us at this stage of our lives, but we'd
[51:15] : love suggestions for other topics or any
[51:17] : questions.
[51:18] : >> Yeah, and of course you could could
[51:20] : email Minette with those as well since
[51:22] : you all know her email.
[51:25] : >> I'm pretty easy to find. I remember one
[51:27] : of my aunts. Yeah, great conversation.
[51:29] : Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you,
[51:31] : Julie.
[51:32] : >> Good stuff.
[51:33] : >> Yeah, Julie, and you and Mark should
[51:34] : come on and talk about where you guys
[51:37] : are in your collaborative life at this
[51:40] : point, too.
[51:41] : >> Julie and I have been secret writing
[51:44] : partners in the morning for the last 3
[51:46] : weeks.
[51:47] : An hour on Zoom writing in our novels.
[51:50] : Typing away the next great American
[51:52] : novel.
[51:53] : >> Yeah, enjoyed meeting Brad. You guys
[51:55] : hear a lot about him, but it's nice to
[51:57] : have a a face. Yeah.
[51:59] : >> Good stuff.
[52:00] : >> Yeah, beautiful. Thank you so much
[52:01] : everyone. We appreciate you coming out
[52:03] : to listen and hang out with us today and
[52:07] : we'll see you in about a month for
[52:09] : episode number two on creativity.
[52:11] : >> Yeah, and we'll we'll be sending out an
[52:12] : email for the next invite.
[52:14] : >> Yep, thanks everyone.