Why Creativity Matters More As We Age: The Second Half of Life Studio, Ep. 2

Key Takeaways

• Creativity becomes more important after 50 because it helps us process life's transitions, rediscover purpose, and stay mentally engaged—not just make art.

• Creativity is broader than artistic talent. Gardening, writing, problem-solving, cooking, music, travel, and meaningful conversations are all creative acts when approached with curiosity and intention.

• The process matters more than the product. Creative practice builds self-trust, resilience, and personal insight even when nothing is shared or monetized.

• Resistance is normal. Fear, procrastination, perfectionism, and distraction often block creativity, but consistent practice helps overcome them.

• Small daily creative habits compound over time. Whether it's journaling, painting, music, writing, or another hobby, showing up regularly strengthens creativity, supports lifelong learning, and helps us navigate the second half of life with greater meaning and joy.

Intro

Welcome to Episode 2 of The Second Half of Life Studio. Creativity in all its forms is a crucial aspect of both of our lives, and it's only becoming more so as we age. 

If you've ever wondered why creativity seems to call more strongly in midlife and beyond, you're not alone. As careers evolve, children leave home, and life's responsibilities begin to shift, many people discover they're searching for something deeper than productivity—they're looking for meaning, purpose, and a renewed sense of themselves.

In this episode of The Second Half of Life Studio, Minette Riordan and Brad Dobson explore why creativity becomes more important as we age. Their conversation goes far beyond painting, writing, or making art. They discuss creativity as a way of approaching life with curiosity, solving problems in new ways, processing change, and reconnecting with what matters most.

Along the way, they share lessons from books like The Creative Act: A Way of Being, by Rick Rubin, and The War of Art, by Steven Pressfield, talk openly about overcoming resistance and perfectionism, and compare their own very different creative practices—from painting and collage to writing, music, gardening, and journaling.

Whether you consider yourself an artist or not, this conversation offers practical encouragement for making creativity a regular part of your life. The goal isn't to produce masterpieces—it's to cultivate a way of living that keeps you curious, resilient, and fully engaged in the second half of life.

Video

Transcript

Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCnIyZ9UD7o
    
Video language: en
    
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[00:08] : Hi folks, we are live. We're just trying
[00:11] : to figure what's going on with our
[00:12] : stream today.
[00:14] : >> Uh technology issues, definitely kills
[00:17] : that creativity bug.
[00:21] : >> Where did we go here?
[00:23] : Slides. There we are.
[00:26] : >> Hi everybody, welcome.
[00:28] : >> goodness.
[00:28] : >> Apologies for being a couple minutes
[00:30] : late. We had some weird button issues
[00:33] : happening over here.
[00:34] : >> Yeah, normally we don't have to say
[00:36] : press the extra few buttons, but here we
[00:38] : go. So
[00:39] : >> [laughter]
[00:40] : >> That's why it's a live show.
[00:42] : >> That's right.
[00:43] : Okay, today we are going to talk about
[00:45] : why creativity matters more as we age.
[00:48] : Before that, we want to talk about
[00:50] : today's sponsor, which is our brand new
[00:53] : mythical makeover experience.
[00:55] : >> It is, but you want to back up a second
[00:56] : and introduce ourselves?
[00:58] : >> Oh, okay.
[00:59] : She's Minna.
[01:01] : >> He's Brad.
[01:02] : >> There we did it.
[01:03] : >> [laughter]
[01:04] : [gasps]
[01:05] : >> And it's easy to get discombobulated by
[01:08] : some of the the technical things, but we
[01:10] : are thrilled to be here. If you are here
[01:12] : joining us live, please type hello in
[01:16] : the chat. Hi Tori, welcome.
[01:18] : >> Tori's always here for us.
[01:19] : >> She is, so appreciate your support.
[01:21] : Can't wait to see you very soon in
[01:23] : person.
[01:25] : And thrilled to talk about our brand new
[01:27] : mythical makeover. We have been deep in
[01:31] : creativity mode on the program and
[01:33] : marketing side of things lately.
[01:35] : >> of that.
[01:37] : >> So this one is an Alice in Wonderland
[01:39] : inspired tale of what happens when, you
[01:42] : know, a 50-60 year old Alice
[01:46] : goes down the rabbit hole. This one will
[01:48] : be a collage inspired adventure. More to
[01:52] : come about that, but super excited to
[01:54] : share this with you guys.
[01:56] : >> Yep. So that's coming up August 22nd and
[01:58] : 23rd.
[02:01] : Today, we are going to talk about same
[02:04] : format as we went
[02:05] : and did in our first episode. Segment
[02:07] : one will be what we're reading,
[02:09] : non-fiction stuff that we're reading.
[02:12] : We don't want to talk about the fiction
[02:14] : stuff we're reading cuz
[02:15] : I just read all of Dungeon Crawler Carl
[02:17] : in like 2 weeks.
[02:18] : >> But you do want to talk about it cuz it
[02:20] : was so creative.
[02:21] : >> And [laughter]
[02:22] : it was very creative. In the main
[02:25] : conversation, I didn't update this
[02:27] : slide, but it's going to be about why
[02:29] : creativity
[02:30] : matters even more as we're in the the
[02:33] : second half of life.
[02:34] : And then we have some some fun stuff
[02:37] : about uh
[02:39] : structuring our days for creativity.
[02:41] : >> prioritizing creativity. Hi Karen,
[02:44] : welcome, welcome. So glad you're here.
[02:46] : Hello, welcome everyone. If you're
[02:48] : joining us live, please type in the
[02:49] : chat, let us know you're here.
[02:52] : Another Canadian, welcome.
[02:57] : I love it. All right, let's dive right
[02:58] : into what we're reading.
[03:00] : >> Awesome. So, [laughter]
[03:02] : we'll start off with another mistake.
[03:04] : So, clearly we had a communication
[03:06] : breakdown.
[03:07] : I worked on
[03:08] : >> 30 years, just saying.
[03:10] : >> worked on one book and I thought that
[03:12] : this was the book we were reading and
[03:14] : Minette had actually shared that we were
[03:16] : reading a separate book or
[03:18] : >> Like we did last time.
[03:19] : >> Yeah.
[03:20] : So, anyways,
[03:21] : what's missing from here is
[03:23] : >> The War of Art by Steven Pressfield.
[03:26] : >> It is a classic.
[03:27] : >> So, why don't you start with that one?
[03:29] : >> Why don't I start with that one? So,
[03:32] : well, funny
[03:33] : >> Let's get the part where we're they see
[03:35] : all of us.
[03:35] : >> Yeah, that's a lot better. Instead of
[03:38] : Hi, everybody. So good to see you. So,
[03:40] : War of Art is one of those very classic
[03:43] : books, especially for writers, but I
[03:45] : think it's appropriate for all
[03:47] : creatives. And at one point, we tried to
[03:50] : listen to it on a road trip. We love
[03:51] : listening to audio books on road trips.
[03:53] : >> Yeah.
[03:54] : >> But the reader was
[03:56] : miserable. It was like painfully slow.
[03:59] : But I decided that I was finally going
[04:02] : to read the book and it was actually a
[04:05] : really quick read. And The War of Art
[04:08] : was a play on The Art of War by Sun Tzu,
[04:12] : famous famous book.
[04:14] : And the book is all about resistance and
[04:16] : how resistance stops us
[04:19] : from living our genius and our best life
[04:22] : and sharing our gifts.
[04:23] : And I even made some notes. I told Brad
[04:25] : I felt like I was going to choir today
[04:27] : with my my book of notes here.
[04:29] : >> Which is great as long as she doesn't
[04:30] : sing.
[04:31] : >> I Yeah.
[04:34] : You had to [laughter] go there, didn't
[04:35] : you? But he talks about how resistance
[04:37] : is any act that rejects immediate
[04:40] : gratification
[04:42] : in favor of long-term growth, health,
[04:44] : and integrity or any act that derives
[04:48] : from our higher nature. He calls
[04:50] : resistance the enemy within. So
[04:52] : basically anything that gets us out of
[04:54] : our comfort zone can be called
[04:57] : resistance. Anything like self-sabotage,
[05:00] : procrastination,
[05:02] : uh numbing, distraction. Don't know
[05:04] : anything about any of these, do we?
[05:07] : >> all of my day-to-day activity [laughter]
[05:08] : >> Totally.
[05:09] : >> is resistance.
[05:11] : >> And he talks about the difference
[05:13] : between an amateur artist and a
[05:16] : professional artist is seeing how
[05:19] : resistance impacts them and working to
[05:21] : overcome the resistance. And he quotes
[05:23] : Somerset Maugham as saying, "Inspiration
[05:26] : strikes every morning at 8:00 a.m." And
[05:28] : Brad and I will talk more about this at
[05:30] : the end when we share how we've
[05:32] : structured our days.
[05:34] : But my big takeaway from the book War of
[05:36] : Art by Steven Pressfield, that's what
[05:38] : we're talking about if you just joined
[05:39] : us,
[05:40] : was this idea that resistance is a mask
[05:44] : for fear.
[05:46] : And that as a
[05:47] : resistance is a mask
[05:50] : >> Mask.
[05:50] : >> for fear.
[05:52] : And that as artists, writers,
[05:55] : photographers, whatever the expression
[05:58] : is, what we fear most is failure. And
[06:00] : this is true as a culture. We
[06:02] : [clears throat] actually consider it a
[06:04] : virtue to not fail. But failure is how
[06:07] : we learn and grow. And for me, it was
[06:11] : such a good reminder to pay attention
[06:13] : when resistance shows up to understand
[06:17] : what the behaviors are that are causing
[06:19] : it. And then to just get back to work.
[06:24] : >> Yeah. And this came up, I think, a lot
[06:27] : in in Rick Rubin's book, The Creative
[06:29] : Act, where
[06:31] : um
[06:32] : just talking about that beginner's mind,
[06:34] : that ability to
[06:36] : uh
[06:37] : move or unravel all of the
[06:40] : layers of crap that we have around
[06:42] : around us so that we can actually engage
[06:44] : with the matter at hand.
[06:46] : Um what I found with this interesting,
[06:48] : too, was that he brought up about um
[06:52] : And this related to Seth Godin, um
[06:55] : >> One of our favorites.
[06:57] : >> Yeah. Talking about shipping the work.
[06:59] : And
[07:01] : how you have to actually do the thing
[07:05] : and and put the thing out there into the
[07:07] : world.
[07:08] : Um and for me,
[07:10] : that's uh
[07:12] : that's about writing. That's about
[07:13] : completing a piece of writing and
[07:15] : putting it out there and moving on to
[07:17] : the next thing and not
[07:19] : agonizing over it or
[07:21] : or for me, um
[07:23] : writing 75% of it and leaving it in the
[07:26] : uh in the to-do pile.
[07:28] : It's about actually pushing through on
[07:30] : that. And uh
[07:32] : I think the fact that there's a giant
[07:35] : to-do pile for me of of writing is
[07:38] : representative of this resistance,
[07:40] : right?
[07:40] : >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I want to
[07:43] : maybe back up for a minute. So, our
[07:44] : topic today is why does creativity
[07:47] : matter more in the second half of life
[07:50] : cuz that's where we are. We could expand
[07:52] : that to say
[07:55] : now that we actually have the time,
[07:56] : we're not raising kids, we're not in the
[08:00] : the same intensity in our careers, we
[08:04] : have a little more mental and creative
[08:06] : spaciousness.
[08:08] : And so, how do we move through that
[08:11] : resistance and show up? And we are
[08:13] : creative, both of us, in so many
[08:15] : different ways. Some of it we make time
[08:17] : for, some of it we don't.
[08:19] : >> Yeah, I've got a uh whole selection of
[08:22] : musical instruments that are in my
[08:24] : vision right now that haven't seen me
[08:27] : using them in quite a number of months.
[08:28] : >> Right, it's kind of like the treadmill
[08:30] : that becomes a a dryer for the clothes,
[08:32] : right?
[08:32] : >> That's right.
[08:33] : >> So, when I think about why did
[08:36] : creativity become more important to me
[08:39] : as I got older, I think all of a sudden
[08:43] : I had some breathing room and I was
[08:46] : looking for practices that would bring
[08:49] : me back to myself. It wasn't about
[08:51] : output. It wasn't about product. It
[08:54] : wasn't about making art for anyone else.
[08:56] : So, we can define creativity, I think,
[09:00] : in a new way and separate it out from
[09:03] : artistic making, right? Or
[09:05] : >> Oh, absolutely. Product making.
[09:07] : >> Yeah.
[09:08] : >> Um
[09:09] : Do you want to finish up on the books
[09:10] : first or we
[09:12] : >> I think we were finished on the books.
[09:14] : >> Okay. I wanted to say a little bit more
[09:16] : about the creative act.
[09:17] : >> Yeah.
[09:17] : >> Um
[09:18] : So, I you pr-
[09:20] : If you didn't see this on shelves or if
[09:22] : you didn't see Rick Rubin in on
[09:24] : podcasts and media coverage in the last
[09:26] : year, I don't know where you
[09:27] : >> who he is? Who Rick Rubin is?
[09:29] : >> Um you know what? Look him up on the
[09:32] : Wikipedia and look at
[09:34] : >> He's a music producer.
[09:35] : >> Yeah, look at the music that he's
[09:37] : produced and it's unbelievable the
[09:39] : impact that he's had
[09:41] : over decades. Um
[09:44] : but you know, crazy haired
[09:46] : uh Buddha looking guy and and that kind
[09:49] : of shows through in the book. It's um
[09:52] : it's more anecdotes, you know, little
[09:54] : two and three page things.
[09:56] : But
[09:57] : um and
[09:59] : you know what, one level you look at it
[10:00] : and it's a little airy-fairy and then
[10:02] : when another level you look at it and
[10:05] : these are profound insights into the
[10:08] : into um
[10:10] : how to be a creative person, how to
[10:14] : engage in the creative act and and do
[10:16] : those types of things.
[10:17] : Um so
[10:20] : yeah, it's it's a different kind of
[10:21] : read, but um if you're interested in
[10:24] : that type of stuff, uh I recently read a
[10:26] : a book by uh
[10:28] : Murakami about the about his writing
[10:31] : process and it's very much a story.
[10:35] : And uh this is not like that. Um but
[10:38] : both in their own way um
[10:42] : are really interesting insights into
[10:46] : um
[10:47] : just that creative act and how to how to
[10:49] : move forward with it.
[10:51] : >> Yeah, which I think just leads deeply
[10:53] : into our topic about how creativity is
[10:55] : not something we do, but it's a way that
[10:58] : we engage with life. Right? A way that
[11:01] : we approach planning travel, a way that
[11:04] : we might approach even well, me.
[11:07] : >> Planning a garden.
[11:08] : >> planning, planting a garden lately for
[11:10] : Brad.
[11:11] : >> planning is a good one.
[11:12] : >> And when I think about what does it mean
[11:14] : to live a creative life or to be the
[11:16] : artist of my own life, it's a very
[11:18] : intentional state of mind that starts
[11:22] : with curiosity and inquiry, I would say.
[11:26] : And that's true whether I'm planning a
[11:28] : program like the upcoming down the
[11:30] : rabbit hole or
[11:33] : um we had a fun um experiment this
[11:36] : afternoon in taking our own passport
[11:38] : photos
[11:39] : so that I could renew my passport
[11:40] : online. And we end up using a large
[11:43] : blank canvas as the backdrop because it
[11:46] : had to be white and without texture, and
[11:49] : we were moving it.
[11:52] : >> was.
[11:53] : It was. And we were moving it all around
[11:54] : the house trying to find no glare. And
[11:57] : now I have this large white canvas
[12:00] : sitting on my easel, and all of a sudden
[12:02] : >> to you.
[12:03] : >> [laughter]
[12:04] : >> And it's So now I'm like, oh, what could
[12:06] : I do on that canvas? It was packed away
[12:09] : in the the back of the studio, and now
[12:11] : because it's in front of me and I can
[12:13] : see it,
[12:15] : I'll sit with it, I'll dream with it,
[12:17] : I'll scribble on it, I'll make marks on
[12:19] : it, right? I'll I'll start getting
[12:22] : um ideas generated. And I think when I
[12:25] : think about creativity as a practice and
[12:27] : a way of life, it has so much to do with
[12:30] : how do I get inspired
[12:32] : on a daily basis?
[12:34] : >> That's funny because I if if I use the
[12:37] : writer's version of that, it's a blank
[12:38] : piece of paper.
[12:39] : >> Yeah.
[12:40] : >> And that's just a horror show for me.
[12:43] : >> [laughter]
[12:43] : >> Right. And it's not for me.
[12:45] : >> I don't get that inspiration that way.
[12:48] : >> Yeah, that would have been a a great
[12:49] : question for our poll. How many of you
[12:51] : listening like really struggle with a
[12:55] : blank page, a blank blank canvas, right?
[12:59] : A blank piece of fabric, whatever that
[13:01] : the blank is for you. Like, is that a
[13:04] : struggle for you? For me, it is no
[13:06] : longer a struggle at all. It is an
[13:09] : invitation
[13:10] : and an openness, and I get really
[13:13] : excited. I get more frustrated in the
[13:16] : middle of a project.
[13:18] : >> You know, the I was writing this down
[13:20] : because it it came up in that Rick Rubin
[13:22] : book, but it it's something that I've
[13:24] : seen for me
[13:26] : many times is I find that inspiration in
[13:29] : different places and it comes to me like
[13:31] : a zap. Um but I need to
[13:35] : for my mind to find that inspiration, I
[13:37] : need to be synthesizing a lot of
[13:39] : information. So, reading non-fiction
[13:42] : books like multiple
[13:44] : books from different completely
[13:47] : different um
[13:48] : aspects of whether it's economics or
[13:51] : science or history or whatever it is or
[13:55] : or creativity. Um
[13:58] : or then you know, thoughtful podcasts or
[14:00] : things like that where my brain is
[14:03] : working on um
[14:05] : synthesizing those things and then
[14:08] : that's where the inspiration comes for
[14:10] : me. Um
[14:12] : It's not uh I can't so
[14:15] : do as well scribbling on a page.
[14:17] : >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah, and
[14:20] : I think I you know, I I talk about this
[14:22] : a lot in my creative videos here on our
[14:25] : on our YouTube channel about how do we
[14:28] : get started? How do we get over that the
[14:29] : blank page? Brad has a very active
[14:32] : journaling practice. I have an active
[14:35] : writing and drawing practice, but I find
[14:38] : that a prompt can go a long way to get
[14:41] : me started whether that prompt is for
[14:43] : the canvas or the page that and like
[14:47] : Brad, I also love a lot of input, but
[14:49] : what I've noticed over the years is that
[14:52] : I can get so pulled in by input, I
[14:57] : forget about the output.
[14:59] : >> Well, no doubt.
[14:59] : >> [laughter]
[15:00] : >> I love this comment uh
[15:02] : that someone said that writing is easy,
[15:04] : just stare at the page till drops of
[15:05] : blood appear [laughter] on your
[15:06] : forehead. Yeah, that's that's basically
[15:09] : it.
[15:09] : >> Right.
[15:10] : >> know you know, this thing about this
[15:11] : thing about um
[15:13] : Yeah, I I definitely take too much input
[15:16] : and low quality input, you know, too
[15:18] : much time on YouTube and Reddit.
[15:19] : >> about dungeon crawler or whatever it's
[15:22] : called.
[15:22] : >> No, that's all right. But the the thing
[15:25] : is when I find that inspiration, when my
[15:27] : mind um puts together these
[15:30] : weaves together these threads from
[15:32] : multiple different sources, I almost
[15:34] : have to write about it. That's that's uh
[15:38] : what I enjoy for essay writing, and
[15:39] : sometimes I'm able to bring that into my
[15:42] : novel as well, where it's like,
[15:44] : >> So, a way of processing, learning,
[15:46] : absorbing.
[15:47] : >> Right. Right.
[15:48] : >> Yeah. I love that.
[15:49] : >> Future looking.
[15:50] : >> Yeah. I think the other reason why
[15:53] : creativity becomes so important as we
[15:56] : age is because we're trying to make
[15:57] : meaning out of our lives. Hence the the
[15:59] : journaling practice, my collage
[16:01] : practice. We're looking for a different
[16:04] : way of expression. Often times there's a
[16:07] : feeling of wanting to return to the
[16:09] : things that brought us so much joy when
[16:11] : we were younger, like your love of
[16:12] : playing piano
[16:14] : >> Right.
[16:14] : >> would be an example of that. I went
[16:16] : through in high school um making stained
[16:20] : glass, right? And I don't have any
[16:21] : desire at the moment to make stained
[16:23] : glass, but to make pretty things is
[16:26] : something that came back around. Or I
[16:28] : used to knit needlepoint before I had
[16:31] : kids, and then I had kids and I started
[16:32] : scrapbooking, and then the scrapbooking
[16:34] : led to mixed media, right? And so
[16:37] : there's always been these little
[16:38] : threads.
[16:39] : But for me along the way something
[16:41] : shifted
[16:43] : in
[16:44] : how I felt about creativity. It wasn't
[16:47] : about the making as much as it was about
[16:49] : the finding meaning in my life.
[16:51] : >> Yeah, and
[16:53] : >> [clears throat]
[16:54] : >> let's dive into that because
[16:56] : it's not
[16:58] : clear to me exactly what you mean. And
[17:03] : I want to understand
[17:05] : I know that I mean obviously we're we're
[17:07] : sitting here talking about it like we're
[17:09] : somehow professional therapists,
[17:10] : >> We're Yeah, we're not experts.
[17:12] : >> But I want to
[17:14] : I want to understand um
[17:17] : that meaning part of things as it
[17:19] : relates to how creativity is bringing
[17:21] : meaning to your life.
[17:23] : >> Yeah, um,
[17:25] : I think it's it's become a part of my
[17:26] : purpose, my personal purpose.
[17:28] : >> Mhm.
[17:29] : >> That's one part of it. So, instead of
[17:31] : meaning, if we use the word sense, it
[17:32] : helps me make sense of all the changes
[17:35] : that are happening in our lives and to
[17:38] : make peace with them and to go on a
[17:40] : journey of self-discovery.
[17:42] : >> So, that's a, you know, a processing
[17:45] : mechanism then, sort of. Okay.
[17:48] : Okay.
[17:48] : >> Yeah, so let me give an example.
[17:50] : >> the act of creating that's that
[17:52] : processing?
[17:53] : >> It's the process, not the product,
[17:55] : right? So, I talk a lot about intuitive
[17:57] : collage, it's one of my favorite
[17:59] : practices.
[18:00] : And the whatever we create on the page,
[18:03] : whether it's collage, paint, or your
[18:06] : journaling practice, it becomes a mirror
[18:09] : and a reflection of what's going on
[18:10] : inside of us. And when we get it up and
[18:12] : out and onto the page and whatever
[18:15] : format is meaningful for us,
[18:17] : >> Right.
[18:17] : >> then we can see it and make meaning out
[18:19] : of it, right? It doesn't become a
[18:21] : trapped feeling in my body,
[18:23] : >> Mhm.
[18:24] : >> right? Or a forgotten experience or
[18:27] : maybe some old past story bubbles up
[18:31] : that's ready to be healed and released.
[18:34] : So much of that happens through the
[18:36] : making itself.
[18:37] : >> So, conceivably someone could do that
[18:40] : where their creative act was
[18:42] : creating a flower garden.
[18:44] : >> It could.
[18:44] : >> Or
[18:45] : >> Or dance or photography or right? But I
[18:48] : think it's the intentionality.
[18:50] : And for me, the the key
[18:54] : piece of making meaning out of your art
[18:56] : is the final stage of integration where
[18:59] : you actually go back and ask your art,
[19:01] : "What is it that I'm seeing here? What's
[19:02] : the story that's emerging?" Or
[19:04] : >> Mhm.
[19:05] : >> is there a resolution or a new question?
[19:07] : Like so much of the time when I'm doing
[19:09] : a lot of my journaling and collage work,
[19:11] : what comes out is like the next layer of
[19:14] : deeper questions that I need to ask in
[19:16] : order to unravel whatever challenge or
[19:20] : story I'm looking to unravel.
[19:22] : >> Right.
[19:22] : >> It's also the foundation of creating a
[19:24] : new story for what's next at this stage
[19:27] : of life. Like it doesn't look the same.
[19:29] : We're very happy empty nesters.
[19:31] : >> Right.
[19:32] : >> And we're in the middle, I think we
[19:34] : talked about this at the first show,
[19:37] : caregiving for numerous parents,
[19:40] : >> [laughter]
[19:40] : >> right? And um
[19:42] : >> Yeah.
[19:42] : >> they're they're all having, you know,
[19:44] : their own challenges and they're spread
[19:47] : around different parts of the US and
[19:49] : Canada. And there's a lot of questions
[19:53] : that arise in your 50s and 60s about
[19:55] : what's next, how do I want to spend my
[19:57] : time, and how is my time getting filled
[20:00] : by caregiving roles? And this is not
[20:04] : unique to men or women, it's unique to
[20:07] : children of aging parents.
[20:09] : >> Right.
[20:10] : >> Right? Of Oh, I got to get on a plane
[20:12] : and go to Vancouver in Brad's case, or I
[20:16] : got to hop on a plane and go to
[20:17] : California, right? And it's that sense
[20:20] : of my time is being filled with things
[20:23] : that I didn't expect.
[20:25] : And
[20:27] : underneath all of that is a lot of
[20:29] : emotion, right? A lot of grieving, a lot
[20:31] : of
[20:32] : they're really stubborn, a lot of
[20:34] : judgment about how they're the choices
[20:36] : that they make, right? With aging
[20:38] : parents.
[20:38] : >> So this explains the the discomfort I'm
[20:41] : having when I realize how much
[20:44] : autobiographical stuff I'm putting into
[20:46] : my novel.
[20:46] : >> Yes, right. It's all therapy.
[20:48] : >> Oh lord.
[20:49] : >> Totally all therapy.
[20:50] : >> I
[20:51] : went back and read a few paragraphs and
[20:53] : uh
[20:54] : I got a little bit embarrassed cuz
[20:56] : >> [laughter]
[20:57] : >> Yeah. So, Vicki, this question is so um
[21:02] : right on. I got asked this question. I
[21:05] : was interviewed on someone else's
[21:06] : podcast this morning.
[21:08] : Is she Vicky said, "How do you get
[21:10] : around the feeling that it's wasting
[21:12] : time when you're trying to focus on
[21:14] : process and not producing any product?
[21:17] : Spending time on something only seen by
[21:20] : myself is hard for me. I think you're
[21:22] : not alone in that and I think that's a
[21:24] : cultural value placed on
[21:26] : commercialization and commoditization of
[21:29] : our time, right? If we're not being
[21:30] : productive, then we don't have it
[21:33] : doesn't have value, right? You know,
[21:35] : everything should be monetizable
[21:37] : including our time."
[21:39] : But if you look at it from a completely
[21:41] : different perspective of this type of
[21:43] : creative expression, creative play,
[21:46] : Brad's journaling practice that he'll
[21:47] : talk more about are forms of self-care,
[21:51] : nourishment, healing that fill our
[21:55] : empty well, that revitalize our own
[21:58] : energy, and when our energy is high,
[22:01] : then we have more to give to others. So,
[22:03] : it's a way of doing the inner work is
[22:07] : always valuable work. Even when for me,
[22:09] : I might sit down like Brad was watching
[22:11] : me last night um cut up a rag rug to
[22:16] : pull fabric out of it to use in
[22:17] : projects, and then I was city
[22:19] : sitting at the kitchen table weaving
[22:21] : strips of fabric. For whatever reason, I
[22:24] : don't know, but it was really mindful
[22:26] : and pleasing to do with no end product
[22:29] : in mind, right? Other than I need
[22:32] : something quiet, I need something
[22:34] : restful, and something that feels both
[22:37] : creative and renewing. So, it's a
[22:39] : conversation that we have with ourselves
[22:41] : over and over again, and Brad and I talk
[22:43] : about this all the time of which of our
[22:46] : activities have more value than others,
[22:49] : right? Like he says he watches too much
[22:51] : sports, but he enjoys sports.
[22:53] : >> Mhm.
[22:54] : >> A lot, and it's downtime for his brain.
[22:57] : Our brains are very busy places. Both of
[23:00] : of are very much overthinkers.
[23:04] : Like we ruminate on things a lot of
[23:06] : times. So, I would look at what's the
[23:09] : benefit for you, Vicki, of that time,
[23:13] : right? And that's all that matters.
[23:14] : Doesn't matter what anyone else says. It
[23:16] : only matters that you notice how you
[23:20] : feel at the end of that creative
[23:21] : session.
[23:22] : >> Yeah, it's interesting. I have I have
[23:25] : a slightly different I mean, I agree
[23:27] : with everything Minette said there.
[23:29] : I have a slightly different take. If I'm
[23:31] : sitting at the piano or or pick up a
[23:33] : guitar or whatever it is,
[23:35] : um
[23:36] : I'm just enjoying playing music.
[23:38] : Um and maybe I get better at a song,
[23:41] : um but I'm just enjoying playing music
[23:43] : and that's that's art for and creativity
[23:45] : for me.
[23:46] : You know, I play chords all day long.
[23:48] : Love it. Um if I'm writing,
[23:51] : I it's project-based, whether it's an
[23:53] : essay that I'm going to publish or the
[23:56] : novel that I'm working on, there's an
[23:58] : intent behind it.
[24:00] : It's also creativity, um
[24:02] : but it's uh
[24:04] : sort of a different kind.
[24:05] : Um
[24:07] : so I don't I don't want those to be
[24:08] : things that
[24:10] : don't have a constraint of being a
[24:12] : project that I complete and ship the
[24:14] : work on.
[24:16] : Whereas with music, um
[24:18] : it it's not that way. So,
[24:20] : >> Yeah, I agree. So, if you think about
[24:23] : the distinction,
[24:26] : I'll use myself as an example. I have a
[24:28] : very creative business. I love my
[24:29] : business. I love my business partner.
[24:32] : And I have a very active, robust private
[24:35] : creative practice that doesn't get
[24:37] : shared, that is unrelated to the work
[24:40] : that I do in the world. And guess what?
[24:43] : It's simply I have a lot of hobbies. And
[24:46] : I would make a case for hobbies.
[24:48] : Gardening has become your hobby these
[24:50] : last couple of years. [laughter]
[24:52] : You know, um music, the way Brad is
[24:54] : describing just sitting sitting around
[24:56] : playing music for the joy of it.
[24:58] : >> It's a hobby.
[24:59] : >> And it's not something that should or
[25:01] : needs to have goals attached to it.
[25:04] : >> On the other hand, I belong to a local
[25:06] : gallery. I get the opportunity to show
[25:09] : my art. I have a certain number of
[25:11] : pieces that I commit to painting and
[25:13] : shipping or delivering downtown to the
[25:16] : gallery. And that feels like pressure.
[25:18] : All of a sudden it has a different
[25:20] : energy attached to it. And that pressure
[25:23] : for me takes some of the joy out of the
[25:25] : creative process. So I have learned that
[25:27] : I have to make sure that I have time for
[25:30] : my creative work that gets shipped in
[25:33] : Seth Godin's words, and I have time for
[25:36] : work that's purely joyful, expressive,
[25:39] : and nobody ever needs to see it but me.
[25:42] : >> Yeah.
[25:43] : Yeah, that makes sense.
[25:45] : >> Yeah, so I want to talk about how I
[25:48] : think we're we're sort of tiptoeing
[25:50] : around this idea
[25:52] : that creativity, especially in the
[25:55] : second half of life, requires us to let
[25:57] : go of performance and embrace play.
[26:00] : >> Mhm.
[26:01] : >> Right? Is what we're saying if we were
[26:03] : to put, you know, some nicer, more
[26:06] : formal words around that. And if
[26:08] : nobody's going to see it
[26:11] : and I still feel like I'm performing,
[26:13] : then there's some resistance to unpack
[26:15] : there.
[26:15] : >> Yeah. This comes up in in Rick Rubin's
[26:18] : book, um
[26:19] : in the
[26:21] : he there's a he he's very clear. He's
[26:24] : worked with artists, you know, people
[26:27] : that have all the hang-ups you could
[26:29] : think of. Um
[26:32] : and
[26:34] : there's a lot of direction in terms of
[26:36] : separating out what happens once the
[26:38] : work is complete and the process of
[26:41] : making the work.
[26:42] : >> Mhm.
[26:43] : >> And so when you're in the process
[26:46] : you can't tie it to the outcome.
[26:50] : You just do your best work.
[26:52] : And then put it out there.
[26:54] : >> Mhm. And you see this with with actors.
[26:58] : People are you know, fans are always
[26:59] : kind of blown away when they say, "No, I
[27:01] : never watched the movie."
[27:02] : Or or a movie will bomb and and the
[27:05] : actor will
[27:06] : the actor will be asked about it and say
[27:08] : >> No, I'm talking about actors in a movie.
[27:10] : >> Oh.
[27:10] : >> And
[27:11] : And that and they'll be asked about
[27:13] : well, how do you feel about the movie
[27:15] : bombing? And they'll say, "You know
[27:16] : what? It was half a year of my life. I
[27:19] : put my best into it."
[27:21] : And that's what that's what we got. They
[27:23] : they've already filmed two films since
[27:25] : then.
[27:26] : >> Yeah, I think that's that what Steven
[27:28] : Pressfield was talking about in The War
[27:30] : of Art saying, you know, failure as a
[27:31] : virtue instead of simply saying failure
[27:34] : as as a natural normal step in our
[27:36] : process of growth.
[27:37] : >> Right.
[27:38] : >> Yeah.
[27:38] : >> Right. Right. Right. Right.
[27:39] : >> Yeah. I The other thing that I want to
[27:42] : talk about, but before we keep going,
[27:45] : what I'd love to do is do our poll.
[27:47] : We're talking a lot about creativity and
[27:51] : its connection to art making, but
[27:53] : there's so much about our lives that is
[27:55] : creative. How we decorate our homes, how
[27:57] : we prepare meals, how we love to
[27:59] : entertain, often how we dress can be an
[28:01] : expression. Love tattoos, maybe it's
[28:04] : showing up for you in that kind of
[28:06] : expression.
[28:08] : But creativity is so much more than just
[28:11] : art making. So, we thought it would be
[28:13] : fun to hear from all of you who are
[28:15] : listening. If you just type an A, a B,
[28:18] : or a C in the chat and let us know, how
[28:21] : much time are you spending creating?
[28:23] : >> Yeah. And this is
[28:24] : about as subjective of a poll as you
[28:26] : could get.
[28:27] : >> It is. [laughter] And but it's this is
[28:29] : not for our information, but it's just
[28:32] : for you to notice, oh, I wish I were
[28:34] : creating more. I feel like I'm making
[28:37] : enough time for it or I'm creating all
[28:39] : the time. I am definitely a C and that's
[28:42] : not always a positive thing, right? You
[28:45] : know, sometimes I need to get out, see
[28:48] : other things. A lot of times on a Monday
[28:50] : morning, we'll go to a coffee shop to
[28:51] : work to have a different perspective, to
[28:54] : get out of our routine.
[28:55] : >> Sure.
[28:56] : >> Right? So, I can get really caught up
[28:58] : between my my studio creative time, my
[29:02] : computer creative time, when it just
[29:04] : becomes too much.
[29:06] : >> Yeah, when it gets
[29:08] : I well, I don't know if she's obsessive,
[29:10] : but when when when a painting is
[29:12] : underway, it's uh
[29:14] : she's at it quite a bit.
[29:16] : >> [laughter]
[29:17] : >> Yeah, I love this. Always in process,
[29:19] : everything speaks.
[29:22] : >> I find that um and I wrote this in my
[29:24] : notes
[29:26] : it because I've
[29:28] : been in more of a a much more structured
[29:31] : practice around my writing in the
[29:32] : mornings,
[29:34] : but it's taken me such a long time to
[29:36] : get a momentum going.
[29:37] : >> Yeah.
[29:38] : >> And there's two reasons for that. One is
[29:40] : that I'm not
[29:41] : intentionally focusing even when I sit
[29:43] : in the chair to to write. But
[29:47] : it says something for uh and I I this is
[29:50] : something I recognize about myself in
[29:52] : all things, not just creativity, is that
[29:55] : um
[29:56] : i- inertia and momentum are are
[29:59] : huge in how how this stuff works. And so
[30:02] : I think of creating enough
[30:06] : as as where I have momentum that it's
[30:08] : easy to sit down and create more.
[30:10] : >> Yeah.
[30:11] : >> And not enough is where I'm having to
[30:13] : overcome inertia every time I sit down.
[30:15] : >> Yeah, that resistance place, or I don't
[30:17] : have time, or I don't know where to
[30:20] : start, or the blank page is overwhelming
[30:23] : me. Like,
[30:24] : A is really the resistance piece. Enough
[30:28] : is I enjoy my practice. All the time is
[30:31] : I'm having a mad love affair with my
[30:33] : canvas.
[30:34] : >> Yeah, it looks like looks like we got a
[30:36] : number of
[30:37] : >> All over the place.
[30:38] : >> quite a quite a number of C's and quite
[30:40] : a number of A's.
[30:41] : >> Yeah. too many people are in the middle.
[30:43] : Um
[30:45] : I would say I'm probably not enough.
[30:48] : Um part of that is because of the the
[30:50] : focus.
[30:52] : >> I would say mine varies, right? From
[30:54] : season to season. Like the month of
[30:57] : June, we were gone a lot and um hosted a
[31:00] : retreat, which was super creative, and
[31:02] : then we drove to California and back,
[31:06] : which was its own kind of inspiration
[31:09] : and thought-provoking
[31:11] : experience, but I wasn't like sitting
[31:14] : down. There was a lot of output. There
[31:16] : was a lot of input.
[31:17] : >> Right. Right.
[31:18] : >> On that trip, a lot of visual input from
[31:20] : all the the beautiful things we see, but
[31:23] : this leads us to this idea of how our
[31:27] : daily creative habits shape who we
[31:29] : become. And this is going to lead also
[31:32] : into our final words of wisdom about our
[31:36] : own practices, but there's something
[31:39] : magical for me that happened when I
[31:43] : really committed to my own creative
[31:46] : practice and made it a priority. When I
[31:48] : showed up to my own creative practice
[31:52] : every day, first thing in the morning,
[31:55] : it gave me a sense of self-trust,
[31:58] : connection, intuition
[32:00] : that I didn't even know were missing
[32:02] : before. To the point where it's now very
[32:06] : much like my cup of coffee. If I don't
[32:07] : have my morning creative time,
[32:09] : >> Right.
[32:09] : >> grumpy. Not as grumpy as if I miss my
[32:11] : coffee.
[32:12] : >> [laughter]
[32:12] : >> But it's that sense of the structure it
[32:16] : gives to my days and how it starts my
[32:18] : day off on a whole different foot than
[32:21] : if I start my day at the computer or
[32:25] : surfing social media or checking my
[32:27] : email with my coffee. I don't do that in
[32:30] : the mornings.
[32:31] : >> Right. Right.
[32:31] : >> Right? And so I start my morning from
[32:34] : this place of curiosity
[32:37] : and reflection that jumps into
[32:39] : everything and it also meant that I
[32:41] : ended up mirroring or partnering habits
[32:44] : like exercise, right? I want my coffee
[32:46] : in my morning creative and then that
[32:48] : flows right into a walk or I've been
[32:51] : really loving Qigong lately or dance
[32:54] : which is another one of my favorite
[32:55] : creative expressions. So looking at how
[32:58] : your own daily creative habits can
[33:01] : benefit other areas of your life.
[33:03] : >> Right. And you've been
[33:05] : you've been so good about this. Um
[33:08] : not surprisingly I have not.
[33:11] : I I need exercise first.
[33:14] : Um
[33:14] : and I've been bad with the the phone
[33:17] : lately in terms of
[33:19] : too much uh social media input and that
[33:21] : type of stuff.
[33:22] : Um
[33:24] : I don't feel bad about needing exercise
[33:25] : first. If you I don't know if you ever
[33:27] : read any of you ever read one of Twyla
[33:30] : Tharp's books about her morning process
[33:33] : but she's in her 80s now maybe. Um still
[33:37] : works out couple hours every morning and
[33:40] : you know
[33:41] : up and early early early but uh
[33:44] : um that's what helps her with her
[33:46] : creativity is is is that exercise first.
[33:50] : Um lately I've been uh like I said in a
[33:54] : more structured
[33:55] : um
[33:56] : writing
[33:58] : uh online with a friend um just so that
[34:01] : we show show up each other show up for
[34:03] : each other um sort of a writing buddy
[34:05] : thing over Zoom. Um and that's helped me
[34:09] : move forward that way.
[34:10] : Um
[34:12] : what I really want is
[34:14] : you know
[34:15] : 90 minutes 2 hours of focused time on on
[34:20] : the novel um but somehow I never seem to
[34:22] : be able to slide into that.
[34:24] : >> Yeah, but you are showing up 5 days a
[34:27] : week for an hour.
[34:29] : >> No doubt.
[34:30] : >> Which is more consistent and you want to
[34:32] : speak to the benefit of accountability?
[34:36] : >> You know, it's funny.
[34:38] : I I guess I've had it before especially
[34:40] : with
[34:42] : exercise and training but um
[34:45] : I realized after about a week of doing
[34:47] : this with online with
[34:51] : with uh
[34:53] : this friend through Manette.
[34:55] : Uh and you know, we literally just
[34:58] : put on Zoom at 7:00 a.m. and wave at
[35:00] : each other and say I'll see you in an
[35:01] : hour.
[35:02] : Um but I realized it was one of those
[35:04] : things where
[35:05] : um the accountability buddy thing meant
[35:08] : that
[35:10] : to not do that I had to make an excuse
[35:12] : and tell somebody.
[35:13] : >> [laughter]
[35:14] : >> And so it's it's uh kind of structured
[35:17] : through guilt type of approach.
[35:20] : >> [laughter]
[35:21] : >> It is but it works but accountability
[35:23] : works. We're also both fans of Gretchen
[35:25] : Rubin, right? And um her four tendencies
[35:29] : work and we both are, you know, [snorts]
[35:33] : a bli- or tendency type is the obliger,
[35:38] : right? Where we thrive on
[35:39] : accountability, whether it's
[35:41] : accountability with each other or
[35:43] : accountability with a partner and that
[35:46] : can become a creative habit also. It's
[35:48] : why I love having play dates with
[35:51] : girlfriends where we show up together
[35:54] : and make art, whether we're working on
[35:56] : the same project or own projects that
[35:59] : appointment setting still counts as
[36:02] : creative time and ritual and it can be
[36:05] : hard to get ourselves jump-started. It
[36:09] : took me years to cultivate a consistent
[36:12] : practice. It wasn't like I just sat down
[36:15] : one day and just started. I stopped and
[36:18] : started over decades.
[36:20] : Um I've talked a lot about this recently
[36:23] : and uh made a video about it which was
[36:26] : really popular about why morning pages
[36:29] : don't work for me.
[36:30] : >> Oh, yeah.
[36:31] : >> And um
[36:32] : >> I think
[36:34] : there's nothing like those uh titles
[36:36] : that that um tear at somebody's favorite
[36:39] : thing.
[36:39] : >> wasn't
[36:40] : uh at all um
[36:43] : to say anything bad about Julia Cameron.
[36:46] : I'm a huge fan of her work. But it's
[36:49] : about when someone says, "You should
[36:51] : write for an hour every morning." or
[36:53] : journal your gratitude every night
[36:55] : before bed, or if you want to get better
[36:58] : at drawing, draw a face every day for
[37:00] : 5,000 days, right? Like it's this sort
[37:03] : of creativity with too much structure on
[37:06] : demand. And as a multi-passionate
[37:09] : creative, what I learned was that the
[37:12] : most important thing was to show up to
[37:14] : the time and the space,
[37:15] : >> Mhm.
[37:16] : >> but not be overly predictive about what
[37:18] : I had to do during that time. So it was
[37:21] : like, "I'm going to be in my studio
[37:22] : every morning with my cup of coffee, but
[37:24] : I get to decide in the moment if I want
[37:27] : to write, if I want to play with my
[37:28] : tarot cards, if I want to paint." It
[37:31] : usually is painting for me in the
[37:34] : morning. It's, you know, my favorite
[37:36] : time to paint.
[37:37] : >> Yeah.
[37:37] : >> I'm different from that. Um
[37:39] : I'm much more effective uh I can't
[37:40] : remember the author,
[37:42] : one of the famous author or one of the
[37:44] : classics authors, I guess. Anyways,
[37:47] : um
[37:48] : as a writer, he said
[37:50] : he would Oh, was this Hemingway?
[37:53] : Maybe.
[37:54] : He would always
[37:56] : uh or he would never finish his sentence
[37:57] : when he finished writing.
[37:58] : >> Yes, that was Hemingway.
[38:00] : >> Yeah, and and so that type of thing um
[38:04] : is huge for momentum the next day.
[38:06] : Um at least for me for writing.
[38:09] : >> Yeah.
[38:09] : >> Um
[38:10] : and knowing
[38:12] : you know, I'm going to work on this
[38:13] : chapter or this character. Um
[38:16] : that type of thing.
[38:17] : >> Cuz then you're working on it ahead of
[38:19] : time, right?
[38:19] : >> Yeah, I found that my best efforts
[38:24] : tomorrow come from um letting my brain
[38:27] : stew on them tonight.
[38:30] : Um whether that's
[38:32] : with an exercise plan or with creativity
[38:34] : or or or anything um
[38:36] : is knowing ahead of time. I don't need
[38:39] : to tell myself all the details. I just
[38:41] : need to have my subconscious
[38:43] : know that that's what's going to happen
[38:44] : tomorrow morning. Um
[38:47] : It's it's a much more effective way for
[38:49] : me to
[38:50] : to get into a
[38:54] : I won't say flow state because I haven't
[38:55] : been I've been writing in a flow state
[38:57] : at all, but um
[38:58] : anyways, get closer to that in the in
[39:01] : the mornings for my creative act.
[39:03] : >> Yeah, yeah. I want to um acknowledge
[39:07] : a couple of things in the in the
[39:09] : comments here. Ariel, I love what you
[39:12] : said. She said, "I hold a wide
[39:13] : perception of creativity. In addition to
[39:16] : my habits around visual arts, dance, and
[39:18] : music, I also feel creative when I make
[39:21] : connections with people and create
[39:22] : opportunities for engagement." Yes,
[39:25] : people is an expression, connecting with
[39:27] : people of my own creativity as well. So
[39:31] : is problem-solving. Brad is the
[39:33] : technical and the creative marketing
[39:35] : genius in our business.
[39:37] : >> Let's
[39:38] : Let's not throw around the G word.
[39:40] : >> Yes, let's throw around the G word. We
[39:42] : both have our areas of expertise. We
[39:45] : will call it that require us to
[39:48] : problem-solve and think differently. The
[39:51] : definition of creativity actually has
[39:53] : nothing at all to do with art making. So
[39:55] : if we uncouple those things, creativity
[39:58] : is about problem-solving, putting two
[40:01] : familiar things together in novel ways
[40:05] : is an expression of creativity. So we
[40:08] : should back up and say this isn't about
[40:10] : your art.
[40:11] : >> I was a I was a programmer for 30 years
[40:13] : and I that That
[40:16] : what I used for my creativity. Um
[40:19] : it's yeah, it's about
[40:22] : What was the last part you said? About
[40:24] : a solution?
[40:25] : >> A problem-solving.
[40:26] : >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[40:27] : >> Yeah, it is. It's looking they they
[40:29] : called you the firefighter, right?
[40:30] : >> Yeah, right.
[40:31] : >> Yeah, because he could look at a wall of
[40:33] : code and and figure out where the fire
[40:36] : was.
[40:37] : >> Yeah, I think this is what separates us
[40:39] : from the apes.
[40:40] : I think
[40:41] : >> Is creativity?
[40:42] : >> Uh I don't know.
[40:43] : >> know. Remember the whole story about the
[40:44] : bananas on the other side of the island
[40:46] : and they all went to the other side of
[40:47] : the island and it separates us from
[40:49] : every other species but maybe not the
[40:51] : apes and the monkeys.
[40:52] : >> that was there's something about it.
[40:54] : >> Yeah, but creativity is definitely what
[40:56] : sets us apart on the planet, right? And
[40:59] : it's creative thinking, our capacity for
[41:02] : thinking differently. And too much
[41:04] : input, not enough output can stop us
[41:09] : from really connecting with our own
[41:11] : creative intuition, wisdom, and
[41:13] : inspiration. Right? And so I think it's
[41:16] : so important to spend time expressing
[41:20] : our creativity in the ways that are
[41:21] : meaningful for us because guess what? As
[41:24] : we age, our brains are aging and one of
[41:26] : the number one things that they have
[41:29] : proven to help keep us young is to
[41:31] : always be learning. And it's a high
[41:33] : value for Brad and I anyway, right? Is
[41:36] : to always be learning. And I would also
[41:38] : say to always be making.
[41:40] : >> Yeah.
[41:40] : >> Right? Always be making without any need
[41:43] : to ship it in Seth Godin's words.
[41:45] : >> My my word smithery brain here came up
[41:48] : with a good one.
[41:49] : It keeps us mentally agile, not fragile.
[41:53] : >> [laughter]
[41:53] : >> I don't know. Creativity seems to evoke
[41:56] : a lot of fragility in our little egos as
[41:59] : well.
[42:00] : >> that, too. But no, it does that mental
[42:03] : agility is huge, right? And
[42:06] : I mean, sure, that's going to go away as
[42:08] : as I get older, but the more effort I
[42:11] : can put into
[42:14] : um
[42:14] : getting out of ruts and patterns and
[42:17] : seeing, synthesizing
[42:19] : um
[42:22] : things
[42:23] : from the inputs that I get is a is a big
[42:27] : deal, right? And that's that's the
[42:28] : agility part of things.
[42:30] : >> It is. Yeah, and Barbara, I just want to
[42:32] : acknowledge what you said about
[42:33] : accountability fills you with shame and
[42:35] : you feel like a failure. Knowing that is
[42:37] : gold, right? So, you set yourself up for
[42:41] : success by not doing that then, right?
[42:44] : So, it doesn't work for everybody, which
[42:45] : is why we're big fans of Gretchen
[42:47] : Rubin's because accountability isn't
[42:49] : needed for everyone.
[42:50] : >> her test online. It's I think she has a
[42:52] : free
[42:53] : >> She does.
[42:54] : >> It's and it's It's [clears throat] good
[42:55] : stuff. Yeah, it's It's good stuff. That
[42:58] : and the That and the cleaning styles
[43:00] : one.
[43:01] : >> Yes, they are the clutter bug.
[43:02] : >> clutter bug yeah
[43:03] : >> Yeah, the clutter bug. Her what kind of
[43:05] : organizing style? That was pretty
[43:06] : insightful.
[43:07] : >> Both [laughter] very good. Both very
[43:09] : insightful.
[43:10] : >> Yes, they were. So, can you tell we love
[43:12] : quizzes and assessments? We do. So, we
[43:14] : want to leave you today with some of the
[43:17] : things around creativity that have
[43:20] : helped us to
[43:22] : be more committed and set ourselves up
[43:25] : for that daily success. We don't get it
[43:28] : right
[43:29] : every day. We're certainly not aiming
[43:31] : for perfection.
[43:33] : I can't speak for Brad, but I'm aiming
[43:35] : for consistency. Just like with diet and
[43:37] : exercise, right? 80 to 90% of the time.
[43:41] : If I get this right, then I am on the
[43:44] : right path. And I think
[43:48] : this impacts our legacy, it impacts our
[43:51] : energy, and it for me personally, it
[43:54] : impacts my joy, delight, and how I
[43:57] : choose to show up every day.
[43:59] : >> Yeah. Um
[44:01] : Gosh, I don't know how to follow that
[44:03] : up, Minna.
[44:04] : >> [laughter]
[44:04] : >> Talk talk about your morning practice
[44:07] : cuz that's what our words of wisdom are.
[44:10] : >> Well, in terms of writing
[44:11] : >> an evening practice as well.
[44:13] : >> I don't know. The The writing part
[44:16] : I want to get better at my craft. Um
[44:21] : and in this case
[44:24] : I mean, I I joke in terms of of reading
[44:27] : other authors and being amazed at the
[44:29] : the level of prose that they're able to
[44:31] : create. And yes, the whole comparison is
[44:34] : the thief joy thing. But
[44:37] : in a lot of ways it drives me to and
[44:40] : some of it is egoic, you know, I want to
[44:43] : be able to to write that way. I want to
[44:45] : be able to
[44:46] : >> on the back. You did a good job, honey.
[44:49] : >> what I want to be able to to dive deep
[44:51] : into the writing and and
[44:56] : you know, produce all the adverbs and
[44:59] : adjectives and all sorts of
[45:00] : >> Do you rem- Do you remember one time
[45:01] : when Connor, our son, both our kids took
[45:06] : piano lessons, and he was in our
[45:09] : my stepdad was there, who's a
[45:11] : a great pianist as well, and Connor was
[45:14] : practicing a song for an upcoming
[45:15] : recital, and he kept like he'd mess up
[45:18] : in the middle and he'd go back to the
[45:20] : beginning of the song and he'd start all
[45:22] : over.
[45:23] : And Madison said, "You have to be
[45:25] : willing to stop in the middle and just
[45:27] : on repeat practice that one little piece
[45:31] : in the middle to get your fingers
[45:33] : >> Sure.
[45:34] : >> into the pattern of that place where you
[45:36] : get stuck." Well, drawing's that way,
[45:38] : writing's that way, ideation is that
[45:41] : way. We have to be willing to sit in the
[45:44] : the the soupy part of, you know, like a
[45:47] : butterfly cocoon in that messy, icky goo
[45:51] : and be willing to play in there and see
[45:53] : it as play, I think. Like, you know,
[45:55] : when you have a sentence or a scene
[45:58] : you're trying to write, you write 20
[45:59] : versions of the scene, not one.
[46:01] : >> Right.
[46:02] : >> That you keep wordsmithing,
[46:04] : but write whole different versions.
[46:07] : >> Yeah.
[46:08] : But that I mean, part of the creative
[46:09] : drive for me is to be able to create
[46:12] : better, to be able to um
[46:16] : I don't know, just do it better. It's
[46:18] : enjoyable to be able to
[46:20] : >> Write well.
[46:21] : >> Yeah, whether it's a turn of phrase or
[46:22] : or a
[46:23] : neat chord pattern on the piano. Um
[46:26] : They they evoke the same uh result for
[46:29] : me.
[46:29] : >> Yeah. I mean, it's for me it's like
[46:31] : public speaking about how nervous I used
[46:33] : to get when I started 20 years ago. My
[46:37] : face would turn the color of his shirt.
[46:39] : I would be sick to my stomach. My knees
[46:41] : would be shaking, but I just kept doing
[46:44] : it until it became one of my favorite
[46:47] : things to do.
[46:48] : >> And she's not lying. If you ever get the
[46:50] : chance to see Minette speak publicly, um
[46:54] : yeah, she's got the the whole thing
[46:56] : down.
[46:57] : >> [laughter]
[46:57] : >> Cuz I love it and I practiced, right? I
[47:00] : was willing to practice. Stand in front
[47:02] : of the mirror, read my talks out loud,
[47:04] : like all the boring parts that nobody
[47:07] : ever wants to do to put in the work.
[47:09] : Drawing skills. If you want to get
[47:11] : better at drawing, guess what? You have
[47:12] : to draw.
[47:13] : You can't just go make pretty pictures
[47:16] : when Brad and
[47:17] : >> mind getting better at drawing.
[47:18] : >> Well, you have talent drawing, right?
[47:21] : It's a skill that anyone can develop. We
[47:23] : had the privilege of seeing an amazing
[47:27] : collection of hundreds of prints made by
[47:30] : Picasso
[47:31] : >> Mhm.
[47:31] : >> at our little local museum here in Fort
[47:33] : Collins a couple of years ago. Didn't
[47:36] : even know how into printmaking he was.
[47:39] : >> Yeah, it's fascinating.
[47:40] : >> It's fascinating, but what we discovered
[47:43] : about Picasso was how much he was
[47:45] : inspired by playing,
[47:49] : experimenting, and collaborating with
[47:51] : other artists and other mediums outside
[47:54] : of the medium of painting that he's
[47:56] : known for.
[47:56] : >> Right.
[47:57] : >> And how much that fed his own process.
[48:00] : And it was such a powerful reminder
[48:03] : of the spirit of experimentation
[48:05] : and the willingness to iterate, right?
[48:07] : Which is so hard and I think we get
[48:10] : stuck with our creativity because we're
[48:12] : not willing to sit in beginner's mind
[48:14] : and look stupid.
[48:16] : >> Rick Rubin had a couple of examples of
[48:18] : that of
[48:19] : not just creative constraints but um
[48:22] : but going way outside of what you think
[48:25] : is the norm to um move from
[48:30] : you know, whatever creative rut you're
[48:32] : stuck in forward. He gave the example I
[48:34] : think of French novelist who wrote a
[48:37] : whole novel
[48:39] : without the use of one of the vowels.
[48:41] : >> Wow. How weird.
[48:43] : >> But it's it's classic classic creative
[48:46] : constraints.
[48:47] : So for me I need to maybe I need to um
[48:51] : write without coffee or or I need to
[48:54] : write on top of the mountain top or or
[48:56] : do like Neal Stephenson and get a
[48:58] : fountain pen and write out the whole
[48:59] : novel up.
[49:00] : >> Or or like Hemingway. We went to
[49:03] : Hemingway's house in Key West when we
[49:05] : were there, right? He had to walk out of
[49:07] : his house up a flight of stairs to his
[49:10] : little writer's garret like that. You
[49:12] : know, there's that physical act of going
[49:15] : and someone said and made a comment
[49:17] : about wearing certain clothes when you
[49:20] : make art. You put your painting clothes
[49:22] : on or if you want to commit to getting
[49:26] : exercise first, you lay out your workout
[49:28] : clothes. When Brad was triathlon
[49:30] : training he used to do that. You lay out
[49:31] : your clothes the night before. You get
[49:33] : up, you don't put your slippers on, you
[49:34] : put your running socks on, right? And so
[49:37] : I think this idea of how do we cultivate
[49:40] : the habit? And for me the way that I
[49:43] : cultivated a consistent daily practice
[49:46] : was not making it have to be just one
[49:49] : thing. I actually have a list of things
[49:51] : that I get to choose from. Right?
[49:53] : Painting, collage, writing.
[49:56] : >> 8,000 different things that you could
[49:58] : pick from down here?
[49:59] : >> Pretty much. Pretty much cuz I don't
[50:01] : know what I'm going to want to create on
[50:03] : a day-to-day basis, but it keeps me
[50:05] : going even and even though I have all
[50:07] : the options, I still 90% of the time
[50:10] : it's either my journal or the canvas.
[50:12] : >> Yeah, right. Right.
[50:14] : I think we should wrap it up there.
[50:16] : >> we should wrap it up there?
[50:17] : >> good?
[50:18] : >> Yeah, I think what we want to remind you
[50:20] : all of is creativity matters cuz one is
[50:22] : good for your brain and two is good for
[50:25] : your spirit and three it helps you make
[50:28] : meaning out of all of the many changes
[50:31] : that we inevitably
[50:35] : experience in midlife from empty nest to
[50:39] : letting go of careers to identity
[50:41] : shifting to losing parents or caring for
[50:44] : parents, right? Like everything's
[50:46] : changing.
[50:47] : >> Yeah.
[50:47] : >> At this stage of life and creativity is
[50:50] : a balm for the soul.
[50:51] : >> A way to process that stuff.
[50:53] : >> It is.
[50:54] : >> Good stuff.
[50:55] : What I think we had
[50:56] : >> We do.
[50:57] : >> slides to review.
[51:00] : Let's see if I can get
[51:00] : >> I think we did them all.
[51:01] : >> Did we get them all?
[51:02] : >> you could just share what our topic is
[51:04] : for next time. Brad's like, "I don't
[51:05] : really understand what this topic
[51:07] : means." So
[51:07] : >> Let's see. We did our conversation and
[51:09] : we did our real life wisdom.
[51:11] : >> anything.
[51:12] : >> We did our different segments of what we
[51:14] : learned.
[51:16] : And next month at some point I got to
[51:19] : travel and then I'll be back, but I
[51:21] : think we'll have
[51:22] : >> I think you'll have
[51:22] : >> time before our mythical makeover.
[51:24] : >> Yeah.
[51:24] : >> We'll talk about the loneliness of
[51:26] : modern life and what actually creates
[51:28] : belonging.
[51:29] : >> Yeah, it's a topic that comes up a lot
[51:31] : in our programs that we hear from people
[51:34] : as we age, as we move across places.
[51:39] : >> Brad says he needs friends, but this is
[51:41] : going to be a whole part of the
[51:42] : conversation, but loneliness is an
[51:44] : epidemic, right? It has been studied.
[51:47] : There have been multiple books written
[51:50] : about it. We'll decide what books we're
[51:52] : going to read about it, but I think it's
[51:55] : an important topic to dip into
[51:58] : loneliness as we age. And how do we find
[52:03] : our tribe at this age and stage of life?