Key Points
- Being alone and being lonely are not the same thing. Loneliness comes from a mismatch between the connection you want and the connection you actually experience.
- The natural “scaffolding” of connection often changes as we age. Retirement, empty nests, relocation, caregiving, divorce, loss, and changing health can all disrupt familiar communities and relationships.
- Small interactions matter. A conversation with a neighbor, barista, cashier, classmate, or familiar face can contribute to a meaningful sense of connection.
- Friendships require more intention in the second half of life. Joining a class, walking group, creative gathering, volunteer opportunity, choir, or other interest-based community can create repeated opportunities for relationships to grow.
- You don't need dozens of friends to belong. Consider what “enough connection” actually looks like for you rather than measuring yourself against someone else's social life.
- Belonging requires some vulnerability. Reaching out, initiating a coffee date, or showing up somewhere new can feel uncomfortable—but meaningful connection rarely happens without taking that first small risk.
Loneliness isn’t simply about being alone—it’s the gap between the connection we want and the connection we actually experience. And in the second half of life, many of the built-in structures that once created community can begin to disappear.
In this episode of The Second Half of Life Studio, Brad and Minette explore why friendship and belonging can become more challenging as we age, from retirement and relocation to caregiving, changing health, and shifting family roles. They also share practical ways to create meaningful connection again—even if you’re introverted, shy, or perfectly happy with plenty of time alone.
Because belonging doesn’t necessarily require a huge circle of friends. Sometimes it begins with small, repeated moments of connection and the willingness to intentionally create more of them.
Video
Transcript
Video URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNqitQW2m7w
Video language: en
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[00:12] : Natalie
[00:27] : N.
[00:58] : Hey,
[01:01] : hey, hey.
[01:16] : Natalie
[01:27] : N.
[01:31] : Heat.
[01:43] : Hey, Heat.
[02:09] : out.
[02:13] : Hey
[02:42] : Is this thing on? [laughter]
[02:48] : Oh, we're not at the top of the hour
[02:49] : yet. We have to wait a minute.
[02:53] : I think people are going to get tired of
[02:54] : those people walking towards them,
[02:56] : though.
[02:57] : >> I know. They look very young and
[02:59] : romantic.
[03:01] : Appropriate for the loneliness
[03:03] : conversation today.
[03:04] : >> We have the romance. We're not young
[03:06] : anymore, though.
[03:08] : All right,
[03:12] : let's see. Here we go. We're at the top
[03:14] : of the hour. Good stuff.
[03:18] : Hey, there we are.
[03:20] : Welcome to the Second Half of Life
[03:22] : Studio, a show where we talk about
[03:24] : midlife, retirement, 50 plus issues, and
[03:26] : creativity for both men and women. I'm
[03:29] : Brad Dobson, the mostly behindthe-scenes
[03:32] : half of our company, Mindful Patterns.
[03:34] : And of course, you know, Manette Ryarden
[03:36] : as the face of this YouTube channel and
[03:38] : as a creative guide for women in the
[03:40] : second half of life. Today's topic is
[03:43] : about the loneliness of modern life and
[03:45] : what actually creates belonging.
[03:47] : >> Welcome everyone and thank you if you're
[03:50] : joining us live or watching the replay.
[03:52] : We appreciate you being here. You can
[03:55] : pop in and say hi in the chat. Let us
[03:57] : know you're here.
[04:01] : >> And as always, we have our
[04:03] : self-sponsoring ourselves. [laughter]
[04:05] : So, the Sisterhood of Wisdom and Wonder
[04:07] : is our membership for women in the Are
[04:12] : we using second half of life again?
[04:14] : >> Yeah, pretty much.
[04:15] : >> Sure. Wonderful community.
[04:16] : >> Hi, Tori.
[04:17] : >> Check it out.
[04:21] : Today, we're going to talk just our main
[04:23] : conversation about about loneliness and
[04:25] : belonging and then have a second segment
[04:29] : um just about some practical wisdom. Uh,
[04:31] : we skipped books this time because
[04:33] : neither of us were able to make it
[04:35] : through a book.
[04:38] : >> They just weren't that good, right? I
[04:40] : tried I started down the path of two
[04:42] : different books.
[04:44] : >> Yeah. Hi everybody. Good to see you.
[04:46] : Welcome. Thanks for joining us.
[04:49] : >> Yeah. And we had some travel in there.
[04:51] : And uh
[04:52] : >> You did?
[04:53] : >> Yeah. Doing some uh grandparenting and
[04:55] : things like that. Well, not
[04:57] : >> No, you were
[04:58] : >> grandparents to my kids. Yes. My
[05:00] : parents,
[05:00] : >> you [laughter] were Yes, we're we are
[05:02] : deep in the
[05:03] : >> right in the thick of it.
[05:04] : >> Parental support unit. Um,
[05:09] : >> team Brad and Manette going opposite
[05:11] : directions. Literally me to California,
[05:13] : Brad to Nova Scotia. We couldn't get
[05:15] : much further apart than that.
[05:16] : >> That's the truth.
[05:17] : >> Which does not breed connection.
[05:19] : [laughter]
[05:20] : >> We try.
[05:21] : >> Yeah, we totally try.
[05:22] : >> Plus full moon energy.
[05:24] : >> Plus full moon
[05:25] : >> and an eclipse tonight. So yeah,
[05:27] : >> you know, for all you Woo folks,
[05:30] : [laughter]
[05:31] : >> it's a big It's a big day. Big night.
[05:33] : >> I proudly wear my Woo crown
[05:35] : >> for real.
[05:36] : >> Yeah. So excited to be here and uh I
[05:39] : just came back from a lovely morning
[05:42] : spent making a mosaic. So, I got to get
[05:45] : my head back in the business game and
[05:47] : out of the how do I make all these
[05:49] : little tiles fit on the board [laughter]
[05:52] : game. But I wanted to start by sharing
[05:56] : what is loneliness, right? Like an
[05:59] : actual definition of loneliness because
[06:02] : loneliness is not the same as being
[06:04] : alone. It's actually the gap we feel in
[06:08] : the connection between
[06:10] : um how much connection and closeness and
[06:14] : company that we want versus how much we
[06:17] : actually have or experiencing. So you
[06:20] : can be in a crowded room or surrounded
[06:23] : by family, kids, grandkids, parents and
[06:27] : still feel really lonely. So it's deeper
[06:30] : than just spending time with people.
[06:33] : >> And I think that's really important to
[06:36] : look at as opposed to feeling isolated
[06:40] : or social isolation or ostracization
[06:44] : where we can't make those connections,
[06:47] : right? Loneliness
[06:50] : happens for a whole different host of
[06:52] : reasons and we're gonna talk about kind
[06:53] : of seven big themes today around
[06:56] : loneliness. But first, let's just talk
[06:58] : about our own personal
[07:01] : >> Yeah, it's interesting when you bring up
[07:02] : a definition. Um I I think it's probably
[07:05] : important that we talk about alone
[07:07] : versus loneliness as well because for
[07:10] : people like me, we're happy to be alone
[07:12] : quite a bit of the time. Um and so I'm I
[07:16] : can be alone and not lonely. Yes.
[07:19] : >> Um I can also be alone and and lonely.
[07:22] : Um but uh yeah, it's it's a different
[07:27] : I guess there's a spectrum of [snorts]
[07:29] : of experiences for people.
[07:32] : >> Yeah. And I think the need for solitude
[07:35] : is good also, right? And the need for
[07:38] : and and sometimes it's a muscle we have
[07:40] : to build for alone time. In fact, I
[07:42] : think about myself for so long
[07:45] : overfilling my calendar with meetings
[07:48] : with people and in during the pandemic
[07:52] : and even when I was first starting our
[07:55] : last business, just that desire to be
[07:58] : connected with people is something that
[08:00] : I need. But I'm noticing as I get older
[08:03] : that I don't need as much of that
[08:05] : together time.
[08:07] : >> Sure.
[08:08] : >> Right. And I still need time with others
[08:11] : and more time with this guy. He was gone
[08:13] : to Nova Scotia for two two weeks and it
[08:16] : was a long time for us to be apart. We
[08:18] : don't really like to be apart very much.
[08:20] : >> No. Every second that goes by in our
[08:22] : lives, we get closer tied closer at the
[08:24] : hip, I think.
[08:25] : >> Yeah, for sure. For sure.
[08:27] : >> I pulled you away from the question you
[08:28] : asked and now I can't remember the
[08:30] : question you asked.
[08:30] : >> Yeah. just was your own experience with
[08:33] : loneliness versus solitude rather than
[08:36] : alone time, you know, like just really
[08:39] : because I like my own company. I'm happy
[08:42] : being home alone. I need that just as
[08:44] : much as I need connection.
[08:46] : >> So, the worst of it for me would have
[08:48] : been when I left home
[08:50] : >> um to go to university and I did that
[08:52] : >> very young.
[08:53] : >> Yeah. at at 16 and uh and went across
[08:57] : Canada, you know, the whole the whole
[08:59] : width of the country um and left behind
[09:02] : family and friends and all of that type
[09:04] : of stuff and um not really fully formed
[09:08] : and not none of us or a few of us are at
[09:11] : 16, but let alone 26 or 36. Um, but I
[09:16] : didn't have and as an introverted person
[09:19] : and and not a a joiner, um, I didn't
[09:22] : have the just the capabilities. You
[09:25] : know, I look at, uh, our kids
[09:28] : >> and, um, we had them in preschool and
[09:31] : they were always able to um,
[09:36] : >> function better in a group and and
[09:38] : create community and and I didn't have
[09:40] : that. And so there was a there was quite
[09:42] : a bit of time where um you know I had
[09:46] : all sorts of self-confidence problems
[09:47] : and part of that was was loneliness um
[09:50] : and not you know not feeling part of
[09:53] : anything and
[09:54] : >> but also incapable of of really creating
[09:57] : a community. So
[09:59] : >> yeah and I'm the opposite. I have been
[10:02] : intentionally creating community since I
[10:04] : was in university but have also had
[10:06] : those moments you know to standouts
[10:09] : definitely going to college was a hard
[10:11] : one
[10:12] : >> and [clears throat] uh moving cross
[10:14] : country when I moved to California the
[10:17] : first time to go to Stanford and not
[10:20] : didn't know anyone right and there was
[10:21] : that gap between like arriving and
[10:24] : starting school so there were definitely
[10:26] : some lonely times in there and then when
[10:28] : we moved to Santa Barbara in 2012 and I
[10:32] : left behind just a huge community. My
[10:34] : kids left behind their communities.
[10:36] : >> Sure.
[10:37] : >> You know, you left behind work
[10:38] : community. That was a really hard time.
[10:41] : Like I was grieving the loss of that
[10:43] : community and not really finding
[10:47] : the type of community that that I wanted
[10:49] : when we move moved there.
[10:51] : >> Right. And you know, typical Brad, I
[10:53] : just uh
[10:54] : >> just kept working, push pushed on and
[10:57] : and didn't didn't really think about
[10:59] : that. So,
[10:59] : >> Right. And I think in retrospect, you
[11:01] : know, I was grieving. I uh we had let go
[11:03] : of our first business and I didn't
[11:05] : expect it. It was a very conscious,
[11:08] : happy choice to let go of that business,
[11:10] : right?
[11:11] : >> But I didn't expect the loss of identity
[11:13] : that accompanied
[11:15] : that shift and change. Right? So I think
[11:18] : that was a big part of it. And it leads
[11:21] : to one of the reasons that loneliness as
[11:25] : we age becomes a more frequent feeling
[11:29] : or emotion that we experience. And it's
[11:31] : because the literal scaffolding
[11:34] : um of connection starts to disappear.
[11:37] : Like we noticed when we moved to Santa
[11:39] : Barbara, Connor was starting middle
[11:41] : school, Maggie was in elementary school.
[11:44] : Well, when they were growing up, we met
[11:47] : parents of other parents of their
[11:50] : friends, right? All of a sudden, they're
[11:52] : older. We weren't meeting the parents
[11:54] : and families. There weren't easy ways to
[11:57] : make connections. And I hear this from
[11:59] : the the women in the the sisterhood. And
[12:02] : and for those of you that are retired,
[12:04] : like co-workers are another way that we
[12:08] : build community. And this isn't
[12:10] : necessarily about having always close
[12:14] : connections and close friendships, but
[12:16] : just having contact with other human
[12:19] : beings. Welcome. Welcome. Hi, Laura.
[12:22] : Welcome. Retirement was like that for
[12:24] : you, Tori, right? Losing the identity
[12:27] : and then losing the community that came
[12:29] : with that identity. And I've heard over
[12:32] : and over again like grandparents will
[12:35] : move to be close to their kids and the
[12:37] : new grandbabies, but they give up their
[12:40] : community when they do that.
[12:41] : >> Sure.
[12:42] : >> Right. So there's that natural
[12:45] : opportunity to make friends dissipates
[12:48] : as we get older.
[12:49] : >> Yeah. And it's interesting, you know,
[12:50] : even just talking about this and I I had
[12:52] : in my notes
[12:54] : >> um and I've written about this before
[12:56] : about um the
[12:59] : sort of decay of multigenerational
[13:01] : families.
[13:02] : >> Yeah.
[13:02] : >> So when we talk about, you know, I talk
[13:04] : about I left home at 16 and went 5,000
[13:07] : miles across the country and yeah, we
[13:09] : went to university, our kids went to
[13:11] : university in different places. And so
[13:15] : though the even the concept of a
[13:17] : multigenerational family wasn't there.
[13:20] : It was something my mom grew up with.
[13:22] : And I imagine our viewers, you know,
[13:26] : most people they can remember some
[13:29] : generation of their family talking about
[13:31] : living with the grandparents, living
[13:33] : with their parents
[13:34] : >> where they'd have three, maybe even four
[13:37] : generations living in the same house.
[13:39] : and and
[13:41] : um and end of life care happened in that
[13:44] : house and and newborn care happened in
[13:47] : that house and so there was a
[13:52] : when we talk about places
[13:53] : >> the infrastructure
[13:54] : >> yeah and when we talk about places you
[13:55] : know the first place second place third
[13:58] : place the first place was that that
[14:00] : family home
[14:00] : >> you got to define that for people
[14:02] : >> yeah so u and this is another another
[14:04] : topic that'll come up is this this lack
[14:07] : of uh
[14:09] : uh third place in society these days
[14:12] : whereas first place would be your family
[14:14] : home.
[14:15] : >> Yeah.
[14:16] : >> Second place was always the church. I
[14:17] : think
[14:18] : >> I thought that was a a third place
[14:19] : >> or second place was work.
[14:21] : >> Yeah.
[14:21] : >> Third place was church. Uh for some it
[14:24] : might have been a you know a a
[14:28] : a group of business people.
[14:30] : >> His stepdad and his coffee and cars
[14:32] : meetings or his rotary group. Right.
[14:35] : where your your dad or your other
[14:37] : stepdad is car, right?
[14:39] : >> Yeah.
[14:39] : >> They had their own uh third place
[14:41] : always.
[14:42] : >> They did.
[14:42] : >> Um those third places don't don't really
[14:44] : exist as much um these days. And so you
[14:49] : have much more opportunity for
[14:52] : >> for loneliness to to pop up and that's
[14:56] : almost inescapable. And it's interesting
[14:58] : because we treat connection as this
[15:02] : private thing and it never used to be
[15:06] : right and this all of a sudden
[15:08] : connection becomes a private
[15:09] : responsibility but so many of the places
[15:12] : where connection happened naturally
[15:15] : especially since the pandemic have
[15:19] : disappeared like Brad's talking about
[15:21] : those third places and we see it with
[15:23] : our kids like the sports teams right or
[15:26] : both our kids were in band. Our son did
[15:29] : university, marching band, like there's
[15:32] : these built-in communities. Work is a
[15:34] : built-in community. And then we retire
[15:38] : or for us like we are entrepreneurs.
[15:41] : It's just the two of us in the house. We
[15:43] : don't have a workplace community
[15:46] : [laughter]
[15:47] : walking up and down the stairs.
[15:49] : >> First place is upstairs, second place is
[15:51] : downstairs, or it's the other way
[15:53] : around.
[15:53] : >> Yeah. I you know, I don't know. But so
[15:55] : we're not naturally out in the world
[15:58] : making friends. Do you want to talk
[16:00] : about the that Nest Labs,
[16:04] : >> you know, from this morning? Because I
[16:05] : think that's part of that natural
[16:07] : connection.
[16:08] : >> It was interesting. Um, this is
[16:10] : >> one of our favorite newsletters.
[16:12] : >> Great newsletter, Nest Labs, NESS Labs.
[16:16] : and she's a French Googler
[16:20] : neuroscientist
[16:22] : named by name is Ann Lant
[16:26] : or something like that. Anyways, um sent
[16:29] : out a really interesting email about how
[16:33] : um this concept of of
[16:36] : transient connection or or or u or short
[16:40] : connections, you know, the person the
[16:43] : person
[16:43] : >> with the clerk at the grocery store. the
[16:45] : clerk at the grocery store, the person
[16:46] : at the barista at the coffee shop, and
[16:49] : how when we treat those as um as more
[16:53] : interesting meetings like we would if if
[16:57] : Manette and I were talking to each other
[16:58] : or I was talking to someone who's uh on
[17:01] : our chat today. um that we get at least
[17:06] : some of the benefits of of uh friendship
[17:10] : that we wouldn't otherwise get as
[17:12] : opposed to, you know, Brad Brad walks
[17:14] : into the coffee shop, he's trying to get
[17:16] : it done in 60 seconds and back out the
[17:18] : door and not actually have to talk to
[17:20] : anybody and,
[17:20] : >> you know, [laughter] hit the
[17:22] : >> hit the the phone on the tap the phone
[17:24] : on the thing and get it done.
[17:26] : >> And I'm getting the person's whole life
[17:28] : story.
[17:28] : >> Yeah, exactly.
[17:29] : >> In 60 seconds.
[17:30] : >> But you get a lot from that.
[17:31] : >> I do. Um, so anyways, it was a very
[17:34] : interesting uh blog post, but
[17:36] : >> and I know all the cashiers at the
[17:37] : grocery store. I know what's going on in
[17:39] : their lives and with their grandchildren
[17:41] : and
[17:41] : >> Oh, yeah. We had a our our favorite
[17:44] : cashier at the local uh Sprouts has gone
[17:47] : through a whole family thing and
[17:49] : Manette's been uh like half theizing her
[17:52] : every time we go through
[17:53] : >> just sharing, right? But those the
[17:57] : because we are often working from home
[18:00] : or we're retired and not in a workplace,
[18:02] : we don't have those brief meaningful
[18:05] : conversations. People are getting
[18:06] : groceries delivered. They're not even
[18:08] : going to the grocery store. We're not
[18:10] : going to the mall anymore. There are no
[18:12] : malls and walking in and out of favorite
[18:15] : shops. It's not the corner grocery
[18:17] : store. or it's a giant Safeway or
[18:20] : wherever you shop with 20 cashiers and
[18:23] : all of them have gone to selfch
[18:24] : checkckout, right? So that you lose that
[18:27] : connection with your favorite cashier
[18:29] : that you see over and over again that
[18:31] : recognizes your name and I think uh it's
[18:34] : missing that opportunity. It's one of
[18:36] : the things I love about shopping at
[18:37] : Trader Joe's because I know they train
[18:40] : their people and every time you go to
[18:42] : Trader Joe's they are so engaged and
[18:46] : engaging, right? like there's a
[18:48] : conversation that happens, right?
[18:50] : >> Plus, our Trader Joe's is in a college
[18:52] : town, so it's a lot of college kids
[18:53] : working there. So, then we get that
[18:55] : youthful connection that we've also lost
[18:58] : from that multi-generational
[19:00] : living, right? That opportunity to just
[19:02] : be in conversation with a variety of
[19:05] : different people. M
[19:07] : >> and I think the other thing and this is
[19:09] : related to that loss of identity and
[19:11] : something that comes up really starting
[19:14] : in midlife all the way to the end of
[19:17] : life and I love my my stepdad and he's
[19:22] : been so good. My mom is wheelchair bound
[19:24] : at this point and he gets her out of the
[19:26] : house.
[19:27] : >> Like he creates opportunities for her to
[19:30] : still enjoy meeting with friends and
[19:33] : quality of life because what happens is
[19:36] : that all of the roles implode and
[19:38] : everything's happening. So we go through
[19:40] : empty nest which was hard on both of us.
[19:44] : You're caring for aging parents. You
[19:46] : might be caring for a aging spouse. You
[19:50] : might be questioning your marriage. So
[19:52] : many people in their 60s these days are
[19:56] : getting divorced. They're like, "I'm
[19:58] : done not getting divorced." Um, but you
[20:01] : know, you're changing or leaving work or
[20:03] : changing midcareers, leaving one career
[20:06] : to start a second um career, navigating
[20:10] : your own personal health challenges,
[20:12] : losing a spouse. We have so many women
[20:15] : in the sisterhood that are grieving the
[20:18] : loss of spouses. You're relocating
[20:21] : whether it's for work or family. And
[20:23] : we're all trying to answer that
[20:25] : question. Who am I? And when we moved
[20:28] : here, I think you went through a big
[20:30] : dose of that personally.
[20:32] : >> Oh boy, [laughter]
[20:33] : that was tough. In fact, it still is.
[20:35] : Haven't figured that out yet. But um
[20:38] : >> which part the who am I?
[20:40] : >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it for
[20:42] : me in terms of in that in the context of
[20:45] : loneliness is just another part of it
[20:47] : because I'm not I I'm not a person with
[20:50] : a lot of friends at all. I have one.
[20:53] : [laughter] Um and so my my life doesn't
[20:56] : really um you wouldn't really describe
[20:59] : it in terms of Brad and the people
[21:01] : around him. Um I have had that in the
[21:05] : past when I was training for for Iron
[21:07] : Man races. Um, you know, I had
[21:09] : teammates. Um, although that still
[21:12] : wasn't
[21:14] : perhaps what you would say was a friend.
[21:16] : Um, although I count I count them as
[21:18] : friends.
[21:19] : >> Yeah. And it's the Nest Labs perspective
[21:21] : of those are meaningful connections. And
[21:24] : part of the article, what I love, she
[21:26] : talked about from that human connection
[21:29] : perspective is how much those small
[21:33] : meaningful interactions throughout the
[21:35] : day add up and lead us to feeling less
[21:38] : lonely and isolated, right? It all
[21:40] : doesn't always have to be these deep
[21:42] : meaningful conversations. Just uh like I
[21:46] : was in the Safeway parking lot and saw
[21:48] : my favorite uh waiter from one of our
[21:51] : favorite restaurants. Ah, yes.
[21:52] : >> Right. um guy from Henry's there with
[21:54] : his kiddo. Right.
[21:55] : >> Yeah. You start to realize how small the
[21:57] : world is, right?
[21:58] : >> Yeah. Yeah. And that just familiarity
[22:01] : and facial recognition. Sometimes it
[22:03] : might even take you a moment to go, I
[22:05] : know that person. Where do I know them
[22:06] : from? But there's a sense of I'm not
[22:09] : alone in the world when we have those
[22:11] : small meaningful interactions.
[22:13] : >> You know, it's funny. um maybe in a
[22:16] : pathetic type of way, but this makes me
[22:19] : think about the conversations I've had
[22:21] : with different people about about COVID
[22:23] : and shutdown times and
[22:25] : >> um
[22:26] : >> it was great for you.
[22:27] : >> Yeah, I was kind of in to it or maybe
[22:29] : hardened against uh you know, I was
[22:32] : already working at home. It wasn't a
[22:34] : well on and off or I had already worked
[22:37] : on at home a lot. um it wasn't a stretch
[22:40] : for me where I've heard so many other
[22:43] : people say that it was you know
[22:45] : worldending for them and you know that
[22:48] : comes in the context of being someone
[22:50] : who's whether you were someone who is
[22:53] : very social or or not very social um it
[22:56] : had a different impact but I think
[22:57] : >> for sure
[22:58] : >> probably more people were were uh
[23:01] : >> affected by it negatively than more
[23:03] : negatively than I was. [laughter]
[23:05] : >> Yeah. Well, I think about people who
[23:07] : lived alone, who didn't have family,
[23:09] : right? And uh didn't have touch, right?
[23:12] : That's a part of connection is the
[23:15] : physical touch, whether that's just a a
[23:17] : high five or a hug. I hugged my dad one
[23:21] : day and he's like, "Wow, I don't get
[23:22] : many hugs anymore,
[23:24] : >> right?"
[23:24] : >> You know, so you think about the all the
[23:27] : different ways that connection impacts
[23:29] : us. And another way I think that doesn't
[23:32] : get acknowledged enough is when you're
[23:35] : caregiving for an ill or aging spouse
[23:39] : because the caregiving or this could be
[23:42] : true for a parent as well. There's no
[23:44] : longer the reciprocity or mutuality,
[23:47] : right, of I'm caring for you, you're
[23:49] : caring for me. there's all the energy is
[23:52] : going one way and often the the
[23:55] : recipient isn't able to return that kind
[23:58] : of care and being needed is not the same
[24:02] : as being known or seen or held and being
[24:06] : surrounded by people who depend on you.
[24:09] : And this is for all you ladies that are
[24:11] : caregivers and people pleasers. Like
[24:14] : having others depend on you is not the
[24:17] : same as having people who also nourish
[24:20] : you.
[24:21] : >> Right.
[24:22] : >> Right. And so I talk about this a lot
[24:24] : like we have to have a way to get our
[24:27] : own inner well and desire for connection
[24:30] : met and filled up and learn to give from
[24:33] : the overflow. And I don't know that
[24:35] : there's anything more draining really
[24:38] : than caregiving. And it's such an
[24:41] : important role. I'm not trying to
[24:42] : diminish the role of caregiver, but it
[24:45] : is also a challenging role. Like I know
[24:48] : when um after I had a C-section with my
[24:52] : our first kiddo and it was a lot of
[24:54] : caregiving for Brad, there was
[24:56] : postpartum depression. I couldn't lift
[24:58] : the baby for that first month. like it
[25:02] : was a lot of care going one direction,
[25:05] : right? And so we can remember times in
[25:07] : our lives and maybe you're someone who's
[25:09] : in that moment in your life. I'd love to
[25:11] : hear in the chat like how does
[25:13] : loneliness show up for you or when and
[25:17] : uh you know do you have any great tips
[25:20] : for how do you get over that? I have
[25:23] : definite thoughts about how do we solve
[25:28] : for this challenge of loneliness?
[25:31] : >> Yeah. Or if you're someone like me who
[25:33] : doesn't who is introverted and doesn't
[25:36] : have a lot of those uh
[25:39] : things in place, how do you overcome
[25:41] : that? Especially, you know, at 55, 60,
[25:44] : 70, whatever it is. Um yeah, let us
[25:47] : know. Definitely be interested.
[25:49] : >> Yeah. And the other thing that we'll add
[25:52] : here is that your friendships tend to
[25:55] : thin out naturally as you get older.
[25:58] : They tend to deepen, but they become
[26:00] : fewer and far between. Not because of
[26:03] : anything went wrong, but distance
[26:06] : happens. You're focused on caregiving,
[26:08] : retirement, you know, different mobility
[26:12] : issues. If you have friends who can't
[26:14] : get up and get out for a walk with you
[26:17] : at this mosaic class today, the the lady
[26:20] : was um you know I was older lady like me
[26:24] : and just up and out walking in the
[26:26] : morning. It's like, oh, there's that
[26:28] : shared mobility, right? You know, if you
[26:30] : have friends who can't meet you there,
[26:33] : that becomes an issue. Or a spouse who
[26:35] : can't meet you there. Schedules, trying
[26:37] : to get people on the same schedule. Like
[26:40] : if you have I'm still working full-time.
[26:43] : Some of my besties are retired, right?
[26:45] : How do you find the fit and the match
[26:47] : for that? So, it's natural that
[26:49] : friendships shift and change over time.
[26:51] : That doesn't make it easy, but it does
[26:54] : help to normalize it. And I don't think
[26:56] : we talk enough about grief in general in
[26:59] : this country or normalize conversations
[27:01] : about grief, but losing close friends
[27:05] : requires us to grieve.
[27:07] : >> No doubt. No doubt. No doubt. Um gosh, I
[27:10] : had a thought and it went away.
[27:12] : [laughter]
[27:13] : I'm sorry.
[27:13] : >> Not enough caffeine yet.
[27:15] : >> That's right. That's right.
[27:16] : >> Yeah. Yeah.
[27:18] : >> Um Oh gosh, where was I going with this?
[27:22] : Yeah.
[27:24] : So what is this next section? The body
[27:27] : can make connection.
[27:28] : >> Well, when we have health changes as we
[27:31] : age, it shrinks our world before we
[27:34] : recognize that loneliness is happening.
[27:37] : Um I still fondly remember my
[27:39] : grandfather who chose uh when to turn
[27:42] : his hearing aids on and off, [laughter]
[27:44] : right? You know, but um hearing loss,
[27:47] : reduced mobility, chronic pain, fatigue,
[27:50] : vision changes, right? Maybe you used to
[27:53] : be someone that loved to read and love
[27:54] : book groups um and struggles with
[27:57] : audiobooks, right? So like it shifts
[27:59] : your areas of interest. And when our
[28:02] : areas of interest change, then our
[28:04] : friendships change right along with it.
[28:07] : You know, sleep disruption. If you're
[28:10] : not getting enough sleep, then you have
[28:12] : no energy during the day and the last
[28:14] : thing you want to do is go meet someone
[28:16] : for coffee or tea, right? Um, you might
[28:19] : feel embarrassment about the changes
[28:22] : that are happening as you age as well.
[28:26] : >> Yeah. I think I get more sluggish as I
[28:30] : get older. It's not healthy,
[28:31] : >> right? We sit more. Well, we have this
[28:33] : conversation a lot about, you know,
[28:36] : we're sitting too much. We're not
[28:37] : getting up and walking. So, I have a
[28:40] : question about um I think some of my
[28:44] : shyness or I use I use
[28:48] : differences of opinion or perceived
[28:51] : differences of of values as a way to
[28:54] : prevent me from um trying to engage with
[28:58] : more people. You know, we're very
[29:00] : polarized these days. And
[29:03] : you see this when people talk when
[29:05] : younger people talk about dating that
[29:07] : it's like I don't want to date that
[29:08] : tribe or I don't want to date that
[29:10] : tribe. And so how do you I mean you're
[29:12] : you're a star at making friends. Are you
[29:15] : able to just sort of they they go
[29:17] : through your filter and you decide who's
[29:20] : what?
[29:21] : >> Well, I think I've done a lot of
[29:22] : personal growth work to be able to meet
[29:24] : people where they are regardless of
[29:27] : whether we have shared views and shared
[29:30] : opinions. But um but those the ones that
[29:34] : are where we're most alike and we have
[29:37] : those shared values, shared interest,
[29:39] : they're few, right? So I definitely have
[29:42] : an inner circle and then a very large
[29:45] : collection of colleagues and
[29:46] : acquaintances. Right.
[29:48] : >> Um and I work at my friendships.
[29:50] : >> Yeah.
[29:51] : >> Right. I am very proactive in working
[29:53] : and I have friends I appreciate that
[29:55] : work on me when I disappear. They're
[29:58] : like, "Hey, it's time to get together."
[30:00] : I think about uh about um one of our
[30:03] : kids partners who who uh he holds his
[30:07] : contact list in great esteem
[30:10] : and to the point where everybody on that
[30:13] : contact list gets a phone call at
[30:15] : Christmas. Um and I and I thought about
[30:18] : that. It's the same type of thing where
[30:20] : um
[30:23] : I got the impression that these are the
[30:24] : people that
[30:26] : >> he's invested in. He really wants to
[30:28] : he's working to
[30:30] : >> to remain in contact with.
[30:32] : >> Right. I've never been good at that.
[30:33] : >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you have your own
[30:35] : version of that.
[30:36] : >> Yeah, I do. I do. Um so yes, we can
[30:40] : definitely talk about social media and
[30:44] : the initial intent behind Facebook. Um I
[30:49] : have so much gratitude for how many
[30:51] : people I'm still connected to from
[30:53] : different times and areas and you know
[30:56] : moments in life through Facebook in
[30:59] : particular and it does feel like it
[31:02] : gives that sense of connection for sure
[31:05] : but social media can also be challenging
[31:08] : >> and difficult and I know I can get
[31:11] : really pulled in but I also have so many
[31:15] : friends and connections that I've never
[31:16] : met in person,
[31:18] : >> right?
[31:18] : >> Right. Like my friend Linda Joy hosted a
[31:21] : big event outside of Boston this year.
[31:24] : We went in April. Linda and I have been
[31:26] : friends online for 15 years and this was
[31:29] : the first time we met in person.
[31:32] : >> But again, it's a um one curated list of
[31:37] : friends and two an intentional outreach
[31:41] : on each of our parts to stay connected
[31:44] : and in contact. Right. And I think
[31:46] : that's that next step. So, um I can't
[31:50] : read the name. I
[31:51] : >> think it's Sacment 007.
[31:54] : >> Yes. Um and moving from a tiny town to a
[31:58] : condo in conquered New Hampshire and it
[32:01] : I'm sorry that you're feeling lonely. I
[32:03] : I want to just name that and say thank
[32:05] : you for being willing to share. And yes,
[32:08] : long-distance caregiving is exhausting.
[32:11] : Um we are in the middle of that.
[32:14] : >> Sure,
[32:14] : >> for sure. And it is that having to
[32:17] : travel back and forth for the
[32:19] : caregiving, then it becomes more
[32:20] : complicated to meet up with people and
[32:24] : to start to find friends. But I always
[32:26] : recommend really looking for a topic of
[32:31] : interest and take a class um whether or
[32:35] : join a book group through a library or a
[32:38] : walking group, right? Um, so finding
[32:42] : something where you know that you're
[32:43] : going to have that common interest with
[32:45] : people. Some of my best friends came
[32:48] : from one of my when after I had Connor
[32:51] : and we had moved to Texas. My first
[32:54] : closest friend we met in Weight
[32:56] : Watchers,
[32:57] : >> right? And then we both had had just had
[32:59] : babies. We're trying to lose the baby
[33:01] : weight, right? And um had kids that were
[33:04] : the same age. So our kids, we would get
[33:07] : together for playdates with the kids and
[33:09] : time with each other. So it was that
[33:11] : that common interest. So
[33:15] : don't forget that it takes some
[33:16] : initiative. And for someone like Brad,
[33:19] : taking that initiative is really hard
[33:22] : and I've I know that. So I'm not saying
[33:25] : that lightly, right? When I say go take
[33:27] : a class, when I'm saying um you know
[33:30] : look for a group that you want to be a
[33:34] : part of, you may have to go a few times
[33:36] : or try a few different groups. And we
[33:39] : had this conversation with our elder
[33:41] : circle inside the sisterhood. This idea
[33:45] : of what does it mean to find my tribe,
[33:47] : right? How do we as we age
[33:51] : >> find the people that we want to spend
[33:53] : time with? because life does feel
[33:55] : precious. Time feels like it's moving
[33:57] : faster and faster. Many of us are still
[34:01] : working longer and longer um into you
[34:05] : know mature age into that second or even
[34:08] : that third act. Right. Right. And so
[34:11] : that time feels very precious. Yes.
[34:14] : Allowing yourself to put time and energy
[34:16] : into meeting for lunch even when it is
[34:18] : inefficient. Yes. I had this class I
[34:21] : went to this morning. It's 30 minutes
[34:23] : from here where we live on the edge of
[34:26] : town in Lovelin, Colorado to get to just
[34:28] : about anywhere, especially in Fort
[34:31] : Collins, which is where a lot of these
[34:33] : things are happening and where most of
[34:35] : my friends live, right? And so I have to
[34:38] : just be prepared to make the time for
[34:41] : that enough, right? Enough. I don't want
[34:44] : to do it every day, right? And so I
[34:47] : think also looking at uh how would you
[34:49] : define enough connection for you,
[34:53] : >> right? Like I'm happy with one or two
[34:55] : friends,
[34:56] : >> right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[34:57] : >> Right.
[34:58] : >> Well, you're happy with You have a lot
[35:00] : of friends.
[35:01] : >> I do. But on you can count on one hand
[35:04] : the number of people that I spend
[35:06] : considerable amounts of time with.
[35:08] : >> Yeah, definitely.
[35:08] : >> Tori, if you lived here, you would be
[35:10] : one of those people. [laughter]
[35:12] : Just saying. You know, I look at my
[35:14] : parents uh as it relates to this and
[35:18] : >> choir.
[35:19] : >> Yeah, they've been in choir. I mean, the
[35:20] : church obviously was a consistent thing
[35:23] : for them, but all was the choir. All was
[35:25] : the choir. And you know,
[35:26] : >> they're in two choirs.
[35:27] : >> Dad's 89, mom's 87. They're still in the
[35:30] : choir, you know. Um, and it's been the
[35:33] : thing that got them out the door. But
[35:34] : yeah, they had that.
[35:35] : >> Well, and Jim, too, right, was part of a
[35:38] : big coral group. Yeah. Jim was part of
[35:39] : the Vancouver Bach Choir, which was a,
[35:42] : you know, an actual traveling
[35:43] : performance choir.
[35:44] : >> Yeah. [laughter]
[35:45] : Yeah. But singing, I saw at one of the
[35:48] : local churches they were bringing
[35:50] : someone in to do like a six or eight
[35:52] : week vocal group and like how much fun
[35:55] : would that be, right? To get better at
[35:58] : singing.
[35:59] : >> Yeah. Maybe like a non-religious one. I
[36:00] : would
[36:01] : >> this it wasn't religious. [laughter]
[36:02] : They were just using the space. Yeah, I
[36:05] : know. I get that. Yeah. So when we think
[36:08] : about what's the antidote to all of
[36:11] : this, I'll repeat myself. And the first
[36:14] : thing is to define
[36:17] : how much is enough, right?
[36:19] : >> Is that [clears throat] once a week? Is
[36:21] : it once a month? Is it once a day? Um
[36:24] : the other thing is and I started one of
[36:27] : the books I started to read and then
[36:29] : didn't finish reading was a book called
[36:31] : Platonic about making friends and based
[36:35] : on our different attachment styles. So
[36:37] : it went deep into the psychology of how
[36:41] : we make friends. But the point that she
[36:44] : made that was so well taken is we have
[36:46] : to be intentional about it. Just like
[36:49] : the amount of work I put into staying
[36:51] : married to this guy.
[36:53] : >> But isn't it easy every day [laughter]
[36:56] : >> for 30 years? We celebrated 30 years
[36:58] : this year. That's right.
[36:59] : >> Right. We're never lonely when we're
[37:01] : together. And I know that's not true for
[37:04] : everyone. It's one of the categories of
[37:06] : you can feel lonely inside a marriage.
[37:09] : You can feel lonely inside a community
[37:13] : of friends that perhaps you've outgrown.
[37:16] : So really first of all asking yourself
[37:19] : what's my loneliness scale maybe right
[37:22] : make up your own scale like um the
[37:26] : person who shared that you recently
[37:28] : moved where you don't know anyone that's
[37:31] : so hard right it's so hard and we did
[37:34] : that when we moved to California we knew
[37:37] : my brother but that was it and when then
[37:40] : when we moved here to California I
[37:42] : already had so many friends to to
[37:44] : Colorado I already had so many friends
[37:46] : and connections here that it didn't have
[37:49] : that same feeling of starting all over.
[37:52] : >> Yeah, that worked out really well for
[37:53] : us.
[37:53] : >> Yeah.
[37:55] : >> Me because of you.
[37:56] : >> Yeah.
[37:58] : And just they're different places as
[38:01] : well. So, you know, um
[38:03] : >> I get I get fear about this um from a
[38:08] : longevity standpoint.
[38:09] : >> Yeah, let's talk about it. Um,
[38:12] : and whether or not you ascribe to the
[38:15] : whole blue zones thing, one of the the
[38:17] : big takeaways from it was uh the the
[38:21] : satisfaction, life satisfaction
[38:24] : um was at in in in a big way tied to the
[38:28] : amount of social, you know, quality
[38:30] : social interaction. Maybe not the amount
[38:33] : uh the amount of fulfillment of quality.
[38:39] : Yeah, I guess quality social interaction
[38:41] : is that that's am I getting that? Small
[38:44] : social interactions, right? And the blue
[38:46] : zones are based on a lot of like small
[38:49] : towns where
[38:51] : >> small communities where people really
[38:53] : really know each other like we live now
[38:55] : in a small community. If you live in
[38:58] : Denver or New York or Toronto or
[39:03] : Vancouver, it can feel harder, right?
[39:06] : And when we lived in California, people
[39:08] : laugh about LA, but people were very
[39:11] : neighborhood ccentric.
[39:13] : >> Sure.
[39:13] : >> Right. Like if you lived in one of the
[39:15] : beach towns like Hermosa Beach, like you
[39:18] : knew the people because you didn't ever
[39:20] : go out of Hermosa Beach. I mean, not
[39:22] : that I [laughter] would want to.
[39:23] : >> That's because it took hours to go every
[39:24] : mile
[39:25] : >> to go everywhere. So, you know, you
[39:26] : start to know, but it comes back to this
[39:30] : like start going to the same coffee
[39:32] : shop. like we have a favorite coffee
[39:35] : shop,
[39:36] : >> a favorite breakfast place, right? And
[39:38] : you start to see the same people going
[39:41] : to these places, um, as well as the
[39:44] : people that work there and the people
[39:46] : that shop there. And so I think that's,
[39:49] : you know, finding those rhythms and
[39:51] : habits. Exercise classes are such a
[39:54] : great way to meet people, right? A yoga
[39:57] : studio, Pilates studio.
[39:59] : >> Yeah. Yeah. I kind of It's funny.
[40:01] : aquaerobics.
[40:02] : >> I always I always kind of uh sort of
[40:05] : sidestepped my way into groups whether
[40:07] : it was through a through a job or
[40:10] : through Iron Man chain training or
[40:12] : through or through Manette.
[40:13] : >> Um right now I don't have that. So it's
[40:17] : a
[40:17] : >> Yeah, it's a bit of a challenge.
[40:19] : >> Yeah.
[40:19] : >> But it's also a challenge
[40:21] : >> because all my groups are really girly.
[40:23] : >> Yeah. Right. [laughter] But like I said,
[40:24] : I I'm not someone who needs a lot of
[40:27] : friends. Yeah. And so it's I'm capable
[40:30] : of continuing on this way, but I don't
[40:33] : know that it's really that healthy.
[40:36] : >> And it's a conscious decision to change,
[40:38] : right? We're not here to say it's easy.
[40:40] : Like Brad and I talk about writing a
[40:43] : book about the dangers of comfort
[40:45] : because our loneliness can become really
[40:48] : comfortable because we're in our
[40:50] : patterns and it takes effort to be the
[40:53] : one to initiate to reach out and ask for
[40:57] : that lunch date or that coffee date. It
[40:59] : takes looking at my calendar and making
[41:02] : a plan and making sure there's not a
[41:04] : conflict, right? You know, it does it
[41:07] : takes effort and that's the like
[41:09] : tactical effort. It also takes emotional
[41:12] : effort. Will I like the person? Will the
[41:15] : person like me? I mean, just because I'm
[41:16] : in my 60s doesn't mean I don't feel
[41:19] : tender, right?
[41:20] : >> Sure. Sure. And I I wonder, you know,
[41:23] : does does
[41:24] : >> uh the lack of willingness to put in
[41:28] : that effort. Some of that has the
[41:30] : hallmarks of depression, right?
[41:32] : >> Yes, for sure. that that comes up in
[41:34] : discussions I see about depression where
[41:37] : >> people aren't uh I don't know that
[41:41] : finding friends is hydonic but the whole
[41:43] : anhidonic thing where you're just not
[41:45] : really interested in anything um I worry
[41:48] : that sometimes that you know sort of
[41:51] : pops its head up.
[41:52] : >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think you know to to
[41:55] : start wrapping this up today to really
[41:58] : again think about that loneliness scale.
[42:01] : Where do you fall on the scale? And this
[42:04] : isn't about a shortage of people. It's
[42:06] : about a shortage of repeated reciprocal
[42:10] : meaningful connections. Whether they're
[42:12] : those brief encounters with your
[42:14] : favorite grocery store cashier and we
[42:18] : live in a culture, it's that
[42:19] : consciousness that we live in a culture
[42:21] : that has made connection increasingly
[42:23] : difficult to sustain. Right? It's not
[42:26] : your fault either, right? that it is not
[42:30] : easy anymore and as we age it gets
[42:33] : harder and harder and I think about um
[42:37] : so we're about to move my dad into
[42:40] : assisted living here in the next couple
[42:42] : of weeks and our hope for him is that it
[42:45] : will provide community
[42:47] : >> right so that there's people to talk to
[42:50] : and um people to eat meals with and it's
[42:54] : not spending that long stretches and
[42:57] : periods of time alone and and he you
[43:00] : know he's like well I'm used to spending
[43:02] : all my time alone and I'm like well that
[43:04] : doesn't make it right. Right. So you
[43:07] : know thinking about um Brad and I we
[43:09] : were at the farmers market one day and
[43:11] : stopped to talk
[43:12] : >> to a lady that was selling 55 plus 60
[43:16] : plus
[43:17] : >> 50 plus
[43:18] : >> 50 plus condos in a complex here in
[43:21] : Loveland.
[43:22] : >> Yeah. Not what you'd normally call
[43:24] : senior living or any sort of No. Yeah.
[43:26] : had none of the healthcare aspects of
[43:28] : assisted living. It was just
[43:30] : >> community.
[43:30] : >> Yeah. Just basically community and and
[43:33] : being able to not have to take care of a
[43:35] : house. [laughter]
[43:35] : >> And you know, she's like so many of the
[43:38] : people that have moved in there moved in
[43:39] : there because of that they can just lock
[43:41] : the door and go, right? Yeah.
[43:44] : >> So, no no pets, no yard, no roof.
[43:46] : Somebody said yesterday, no gutters to
[43:48] : clean, right? you know, all the things
[43:50] : that come along with with tending to a
[43:53] : home that gets to be overwhelming at a
[43:56] : certain period and point in time, which
[43:58] : is what Brad is seeing with his parents
[44:01] : at the moment, is just a lot, right? For
[44:04] : >> Yeah, it's it [laughter] at well at 89,
[44:08] : we're trying to convince uh trying to
[44:11] : convince my dad that uh maybe he can
[44:12] : back away from some of the
[44:14] : responsibilities.
[44:15] : >> Yeah, for sure.
[44:16] : >> He's still climbing ladders. He was on
[44:18] : the roof with me at the c at the cottage
[44:20] : the other week.
[44:21] : >> Yeah. I don't even want to think about
[44:22] : that. But as you think about whatever
[44:25] : age or stage of life you're at here in
[44:27] : the moment and going forward from
[44:31] : looking today at what do you want to
[44:34] : build in terms of community and
[44:35] : connection from here? Right. I'm 61.
[44:39] : You're 58ish
[44:41] : >> I think. So
[44:42] : >> yeah. Um, you know, it's like think
[44:44] : about what is what is again, it's like
[44:46] : what's enough connection and what would
[44:49] : be the most meaningful and start looking
[44:52] : for it and go slow. Like you don't have
[44:55] : to go fast either, right?
[44:57] : >> Right. Like you don't have to go out and
[44:58] : make a ton of friends right away.
[45:00] : Especially if you're on the shy andor
[45:03] : introverted scales, right? If it's
[45:05] : challenging for you, be patient with
[45:08] : yourself as well.
[45:09] : >> Right. Yeah. It feels like you're
[45:12] : talking to me.
[45:12] : >> No, [laughter] I'm I'm talking to
[45:15] : talking to everyone, right? You know,
[45:18] : and
[45:19] : >> it's I think we have a lot more
[45:21] : discernment as we age about what kinds
[45:24] : of people we want to spend time with.
[45:25] : Also,
[45:26] : >> that's a really good way to put it. Um,
[45:30] : of course, I can like anything I can use
[45:33] : that an excuse for for not
[45:34] : >> why try
[45:35] : >> furthering things, but
[45:36] : >> you just don't like people.
[45:38] : >> I like people. I like people that I
[45:40] : like. [laughter]
[45:42] : All right, we have a couple of other
[45:44] : things to
[45:46] : We were going to talk about a
[45:49] : >> We were about a
[45:51] : >> uh What did we have? We had
[45:55] : >> Oh, a fun quiz.
[45:56] : >> Yeah, maybe you could answer in the
[45:58] : chat. In terms of friends, belonging,
[46:02] : and tribe, where do you land? Not
[46:05] : enough, lots, or seeking more? And you
[46:08] : can just type A, B, or C in the chat.
[46:11] : >> Um, so we're interested in just sort of
[46:13] : where people fall on this spectrum.
[46:16] : >> That would be an A.
[46:17] : >> Yeah, definitely not enough.
[46:18] : >> And the net would be a
[46:20] : >> lots a [laughter] B.
[46:22] : >> And we're fine together, right? So I
[46:25] : think also we can't expect our partner
[46:29] : >> to meet all of our needs,
[46:31] : >> right? We can't expect our partner to
[46:34] : meet all of our needs. So, you know,
[46:37] : it's we have to look at it through that
[46:39] : perspective. Right.
[46:40] : >> Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.
[46:42] : >> Yeah. For sure. When you just move,
[46:45] : you're just in that not enough and it
[46:47] : just is feels like you're spinning
[46:48] : seeking more. Right. Have enough. Yeah.
[46:52] : Beautiful.
[46:53] : Anyone else with any suggestions? What
[46:56] : have you tried
[46:58] : that has worked for you to find tribe or
[47:03] : places to belong? Like I'm loving the
[47:06] : new trends on like knitts taking over
[47:12] : coffee shops for an evening or quiet
[47:15] : reading opportunities or I love the
[47:18] : silent disco trend. I still would love
[47:20] : to do that because the I find the noise
[47:23] : overwhelming or you know there's um a
[47:27] : new mocktail bar here in Lovelin called
[47:31] : the Love Shack,
[47:32] : >> right? So that people are starting to
[47:35] : understand this need for these third
[47:37] : spaces and that sometimes you can be
[47:40] : together alone. So it's not always about
[47:43] : I need to talk, right? Like this mosaic
[47:46] : class I went with two girlfriends this
[47:48] : morning and volunteering is a great
[47:50] : example. And we were there quietly,
[47:54] : right? Learn to play ma jang. That's a
[47:56] : great one. Yeah. Super communal. That
[47:59] : reminds me, I had I was on a a kick for
[48:01] : a while to thinking of a an idea for
[48:05] : creating third spaces, especially for
[48:08] : men. Um, yeah, I got to remember that.
[48:13] : That was a whole thing. I Yeah, there's
[48:16] : a lot there. A lot that people are
[48:18] : missing
[48:19] : >> like the ability Yeah. the ability to go
[48:22] : out and find that type of thing. So,
[48:23] : >> men do knit though, you know. Well,
[48:25] : >> it's pretty trendy.
[48:28] : Yeah, that's [laughter] fine.
[48:30] : >> I'm just kidding.
[48:31] : >> What was it? The whole yarn bomb thing.
[48:32] : >> Yes, the yarn bomb.
[48:33] : >> We went up to this one rock climbing
[48:35] : place one day and the whole place had
[48:37] : been yarn bombed and I don't know. I I'm
[48:39] : not quite sure how I felt about that.
[48:42] : >> Super fun. But again, those third
[48:44] : spaces, places where people that don't
[48:47] : know each other can come together for
[48:50] : connection and community is really
[48:53] : powerful.
[48:53] : >> That's not the bar.
[48:54] : >> That's not a bar, right? you know that
[48:57] : where it's not church or it's not
[49:00] : exercise related but it's again that
[49:03] : people gathering like there's a place
[49:07] : here um the pie place um what's it
[49:11] : called? Oh me my pie. It's a great name.
[49:13] : Me my pie. And they have good pie. And
[49:16] : once a month or maybe even once a week
[49:19] : on Thursdays they have craft night,
[49:22] : right? And you just bring your own
[49:24] : craft, whatever you're working on and
[49:27] : have some pie. It's great for them and
[49:29] : it's also great for the people.
[49:31] : >> A lot of places do that with board
[49:32] : games, too, or
[49:34] : >> rent a studio space in town. Just moved
[49:37] : away from. Right. Get out of your house.
[49:39] : I love that. Yeah. Oh, Sandy, it's you.
[49:41] : Hello, Sandy. Yeah, I'm glad you typed
[49:44] : your name in there.
[49:47] : >> This was our next section.
[49:49] : >> This is our next section. I think we
[49:50] : kind of talked about that already. You
[49:52] : had your slides all organized and
[49:54] : >> she's a natural joiner. I'm not I'm not
[49:56] : sure what the real life wisdom is, but
[49:59] : uh from a not natural joiner
[50:01] : perspective. Yeah. Find a spouse who has
[50:03] : lots of friends. [laughter]
[50:05] : >> That's my theory.
[50:06] : >> I want a spouse or find a friend who has
[50:09] : lots of friends, right? Um, and maybe
[50:12] : you're not looking for lots of friends.
[50:13] : You're not looking for lots of friends,
[50:15] : but it would be nice to have one or two
[50:18] : friends. Sure.
[50:19] : >> But again, I'll go back to that advice
[50:21] : of you have to be willing to take a risk
[50:24] : and it can feel very vulnerable to reach
[50:26] : out to someone new and say, "Hey, you
[50:29] : want to meet up for coffee?"
[50:31] : >> Right. Right. Right.
[50:32] : >> Yeah. So being willing to take the
[50:33] : initiative and if you're someone who's
[50:36] : really struggling with connection and
[50:38] : with platonic friendships, I do
[50:40] : recommend the book Platonic. It didn't
[50:42] : really apply as much to our conversation
[50:45] : today, but it is an excellent book on
[50:49] : the how we tend to relate to people
[50:53] : based on our childhood attachment style.
[50:56] : Ah
[50:56] : >> right. So, it has a lot to do with our
[50:59] : comfort level of reaching out to others.
[51:02] : >> Good stuff. Good stuff. I think I'm
[51:06] : done. Are you done?
[51:06] : >> You think you're done? I'm Well, you
[51:07] : know me, I can just talk and talk and
[51:09] : talk. So, we can be done.
[51:10] : >> All righty. Well, our next episode,
[51:13] : which will be in another month, uh I
[51:16] : don't have a date for you, but anyways,
[51:18] : that'll be episode four.
[51:19] : >> Thursday in September.
[51:21] : >> Yeah.
[51:21] : >> Right. It's always on the last Thursday.
[51:23] : Maybe you can tell me what this meant
[51:25] : because you [laughter]
[51:26] : >> Yeah, I know. I come up with the topics
[51:28] : and Brad's like, "I don't know what that
[51:30] : means. You need to be adopted by a tribe
[51:33] : of artists." Amen. I will come along
[51:35] : with you on [snorts] that one. So, I
[51:38] : pulled all my friends on Facebook when I
[51:41] : first started doing work with women in
[51:44] : midlife and beyond about the word
[51:47] : reinvention. And there was this very
[51:49] : visceral dislike of the word
[51:52] : reinvention. It was fascinating. This
[51:54] : was a a few years ago. And I think that
[51:58] : we hit this point in life where
[52:01] : everything feels like it's falling
[52:02] : apart.
[52:03] : >> And that we have to be like the the
[52:06] : phoenix rising from the ashes and build
[52:09] : oursel renew a new. But the phoenix
[52:12] : actually isn't new, right? It's the same
[52:15] : Phoenix just being born into a new form.
[52:19] : So reinvention implies there's something
[52:21] : wrong or something missing instead of
[52:24] : really looking at midlife and beyond as
[52:28] : the opportunity to design a life of our
[52:31] : choosing
[52:32] : >> or to come back into ourselves
[52:33] : >> or to come back into ourselves after
[52:35] : decades of career and work and being
[52:38] : disconnected. That loss of identity
[52:41] : creates an inner disconnection from the
[52:44] : soul of who we are. But we don't need to
[52:46] : reinvent ourselves. I think we need to
[52:49] : remember what matters most to us.
[52:51] : >> Well, that sounds like one we'll be able
[52:52] : to talk about, too.
[52:53] : >> Yeah, for sure.
[52:55] : >> All good topics.
[52:56] : >> All right. Thank you, everybody.
[52:58] : >> Have a great rest of your day. We
[52:59] : appreciate you being
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